Spoilt votes - post them here so that the parties/papers can see them

That’s it exactly Buzz, whichever party passes self ID will give themselves a massive pat on the back for having solved all problems faced by women in the space of a few years. They’ll get to say ‘look at how great we are. All those centuries of women’s oppression and we solved it. Look how great we are’. Of course all women’s issues will have evaporated, because all the penis owners will tell everyone how great life is as a woman.

Not for Tory , whatever.

As pp said, would you rather I voted Tory or spoiled my ballot?

What a strange question- plenty of people will be voting Tory- plenty of women will be voting Tory. I would except my constituency is Lib Dem /SNP contest so Lib Dem gets my vote.

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been discussed, but if the parties are all equally bad on this issue, why not just base your voting decision on some other criteria?

Yes- that's the bit I don't really get. Especially posters who have said they are in marginal seats (can't remember if it was this or another thread) - that they really can't stand [insert one of the mainstream parties] but would prefer that that party might win than vote for any other party.

From the second part of your post I'm assuming you are not a Tory voter- obviously fair enough. Personally I think Corbyn's wild spending plans and nationalisation are utterly unrealistic. If you voting Lib Dem keeps a Tory out in your constituency and me voting Lib Dem keeps the SNP out in mine - why not do it?

They will only make lives better for men and boys, while wiping out rights for all women and girls.

I have zero interest in an nhs that women can’t access because male hcp are now ‘women’ and the women’s mh wards are filled by men. I have zero interest in well funded education when girls can no longer access it because they can’t change their pads in unisex toilets or wash blood off their hands in front of boys or have to change and shower with them or play contact sports against them. I couldn’t careless about money put into homeless provision when women won’t be safe there, or money allocated to dv charities that open their doors to any man who says he’s a women. I don’t give a damn about democracy that’s only for men- because that’s what this is, erasing women’s rights erases women’s vote on women’s issues, as all ‘women’s votes’ will now contain men, just like all political parties will now have 50% women (only the kind with penises who self ID) so women loose all ability to wield any political pressure as group on issues that effect us because of our shared experience. So I don’t gaf about anyone trying to manipulate women by appealing to our socialisation that’s supposed to get us to care about everyone else before ourselves. That’s what got us in this fricken mess in the first place, men knowing fine well that they can say oh but what about these poor marginalised people and women will jump right over to give them all our rights.

I think withholding a vote that could make lives better for the least in society is a privileged position I could not bring myself to take.

Well aren't you just so much better than the rest of us then, well done

Let me ask you this though - how will you personally campaign for the poorest women in society to get support when the data shows a whole bunch of women doing very nicely thank you, so no need for extra funding or specific initiatives or the like. The fact they are male women will be irrelevant, of course.

Vote in your mate Jeremy or Jo and that's what you'll get along with your never ending fountain of free unicorns for all.

As pp said, would you rather I voted Tory or spoiled my ballot?

I will not endorse this bullshit.

I understand that. But in an election where it's racist right wing Brexit or not, I think withholding a vote that could make lives better for the least in society is a privileged position I could not bring myself to take.

Wishes -because they will take that as a sign of my support for all their policies. Same way tories took being voted in as a sign everyone supported a referendum on leaving the EU, hence the stupid fucking position we are in now. There’s no box on the ballot form for ‘x for candidate’ then another for ‘list all the policies you agree with, those you don’t, and those you are so so on’. It’s x here if you choose us, and they take that to mean all policies on their manifesto, not just policy 1 3 & 6.

I've debated with myself whether or not to spoil my ballot but ultimately I've decided to vote. The spoilt ballots may - if it's a slow news day and a sympathetic journalist wants an unique angle on the election - get some coverage but I don't think they'll affect parties' positions. It's the age-old dilemma of voting on principle or pragmatically. atm I'm coming down on the side of pragmatism because I'm extremely concerned about the future of the NHS. However, I admire all of you making your protest at the ballot box. I know how difficult a decision it is

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been discussed, but if the parties are all equally bad on this issue, why not just base your voting decision on some other criteria?

When the country is on a knife edge and staring at four more years of xenophobia and austerity, this seems a bit futile.

My sister counts ballots on election night; it's not like anyone reads the spoiled ones, they just go in a spoiled pile.

There will be no information on the number of deliberately spoiled ballots, let alone reason for spoiling. They will be all lumped together in one headline figure, together with the incompetent, the blank etc.

Rather like one cannot be sure about why people didn't vote (deliberate abstention, adverse logistics, sudden illness/crisis, CBAness etc

Will there be representatives of the different parties outside each polling station? I haven’t got an answer from my local SNP candidate about whether they’ve signed the Women’s pledge and where they stand on Self ID so I’m hoping I can ask someone tomorrow before I vote. There is an independent MP standing in my area on the issue of Women’s Pensions. Rather than spoil my vote she might get my vote instead. Or I still might spoil it but don’t know what succinct wording to write on it. Any ideas?

Because they will take my vote as an endorsement of all their policies. They always do - all parties do. They will take MY vote as an endorsement of their appalling, anti-women's rights policies.

They can fuck right off.

This. And this is exactly why I'm spoiling my ballot. And I don't give a fuck if people disapprove or scold.

I’m sure suffragettes would be in full support of any and all protests against this.

Agree. Re-reading 'March, Women March' and many parallels in terms of the propaganda here.

Oh, and the Pankhursts were 'privileged' does that mean that they should have hung up their purple, white and green sashes then?

Why not include them all on the same email, then they can see each other's replies

Very good advice - thank you, @OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg.

SDTG I think you'd be better served by voting however you feel moved to vote, and separately contacting the relevant candidate to tell them your views and that they shouldn't take your vote based on issues A-C (or whatever) as an endorsement of their stance on D. (Plus contacting other candidates to tell them why they lost your vote, if so inclined.)

If I put my cross correctly in the box, but write a comment on the paper, does that count as a vote, or a spoiled ballot, or is it both?

I having great difficultly deciding who to vote for - there are only 4 candidates in my constituency, two of whom I absolutely will not support. The other two represent parties each of which have policies I agree with, but each have major issues that put me off them. Whilst I am horrified by Jo Swindon’s stance on the GRA and women-with-penises, I feel that, for me, they are the least worst option - so I would like to vote LibDem but make a comment in the ballot paper - but if the candidate doesn’t see it, there is no point.

The idea that self ID is a middle class issue is ridiculous.

It's only a middle class issue in the sense that gender identity as something to vocally agonise and navel gaze over particularly flourishes in the lecture halls of Woke-ademia. You're right that the effects of this having been taken up so enthusiastically by major political parties will disproportionately be felt most by working class women and those who end up fleeing domestic and financial abuse.

I don't think a spoiled ballot is the same as a non-voter.

An (intentionally) spoiled ballot sends the message that you are engaged with politics but feel no-one represents you.

A non-voter could mean anything from 'can't be arsed' to 'forgot it was today' to 'crashed the car on the way to the polling station' and everything in-between.

Politicians can disregard a high number - a third to a quarter of the electorate, approximately, based on previous turnouts - of non-voters, they couldn't (or shouldn't) do the same if a quarter to a third of the electorate all deliberately spoilt their ballots.

Which is why I'll always say if you don't know who to vote for then at least spoil your ballot rather than not vote.

The only wasted vote is the one you don't cast!

Also, seeing as someone brought up the fight for women’s vote-

Self ID bill erases women’s right to vote on women’s issues. There will be no way to tally and evaluate how natal women vote when ‘women’ will now be a group that contains men. There will be no way for women to discuss women’s political issues in women’s protest groups now because ‘women’ will always contain men. There will be no way to evaluate how many women mps they are and how they vote on women’s issues now as ‘women’ will always contain men. Any evaluation of how parties appeal to women will now be meaningless as ‘women’ now contain men. Supporting self ID, even by voting for a ‘lesser’ evil (because they take any vote as support for all policies) means putting women’s voting power back to pre suffrage. We can still vote sure, but we can no longer use our shared experiences of being women as a way to put voter pressure on parties, because all ‘women’ will contain men. We can vote on what we feel matters for our husbands and sons and brothers sure, but I don’t care for an nhs that only meets the needs of men, or an education system that has more than enough money because girls are no longer safe there. Once self ID is passed every political party will have 50% women (only they won’t), women will feel safe sharing unisex spaces with men (because women=men) and women’s issues will all be resolved (because women=men and they tell us they are). All of which makes women’s votes meaningless. So I’m sure suffragettes would be in full support of any and all protests against this.

Again, I will spoil my ballot because I can’t let any candidate think I support their pro self ID stance. It counts to me, I don’t expect it to count more than that. I am sending a message by spoiling though, I don’t expect the ballot to be read by anyone who matters (I will write NONE) but I will email/have emailed all candidates and explained I was spoiling and why. I have explained to candidates I would consider based on other policies that this one (over arching) issue has cost them my vote. I have explained that if they are willing to go against their party line and vote against self ID they will get my vote in future. Anyone spoiling their ballot should do this. If everyone spoiling their ballots do this then there maybe some candidates who wake up and realise that next time there are a lot of votes up for grabs for whoever stands up against women’s erasure.

As a middle class woman I’m fairly reassured by the fact I can at least side step some of the impact that self ID bill causes. I don’t have to be at work and use unisex toilets along side a man, I have a long term stable marriage where I’ve never had a reason to think I’d need to use a woman’s refuge or homelessness shelter along side a man who could pose a risk to me, i have never been to prison nor do I expect I ever will, so I don’t need to worry about rapists in the same cell as me. If my nhs services refuse access to a female hcp then I can pay enough for a smear if necessary (although no garentee either but at least money can have influence). I can vote with my money and go and join the ballentine gym where the owner says he will ensure men don’t get access to the woman only floor/change rooms/toilets. I can afford the petrol to get there if my local gym goes unisex. I am already stuck home educating one child, if I have to do so with my other girl when she gets to secondary ages because boys are allowed in girls toilets then I will do. I’m also educated enough to advocate for my daughters, and to put in carefully worded complaints letters (using links here and fpfw etc) to gps and so on as needed. I have a partner who supports me and understands these issues and how they will effect our daughters. We probably only count as lower middle class, but we are most definitely mc enough for me to avoid the worse effects of the self ID law on safety. If it effects my daughters sports at school we can pay for sports classes outside school where we can choose ones that are likely to be girls only, or where I can pick up and take them home to shower or pay from private sports like horse riding or private swimming lessons. I can vet any tutors I pay to come into our home, so I know our daughters aren’t hearing twaw bs and I know the common views of many of our home Ed network and who I’d happily trade child care and education with, and who I won’t.

The erasure of women as an identifiable class effects me massively, as ‘women’s’ vote will now contain men’s views, and the whole thing is terrifying on so many levels, but personally I will be fine I’m sure. Poorer women who need mh hospitals, dv refuges, homeless shelters, prisons and so on are the most vulnerable group. Women who need to work all hours and can’t opt out of using unisex toilets and change rooms are more vulnerable.

My daughters have multiple disabilities (as do I) and the concern for how little support they will get long term is huge, the erasure of women's safety will impact them much more than me personally. As all austerity, nhs cuts, education cuts effect my daughters much more than me. The idea that self ID is a middle class issue is ridiculous. Prisons and homeless shelters are not filled with mc class women, mh facilities are much more likely to be filled by poorer women, and while dv effects all classes equally i at least know if this was to become as issue after 20 yrs + of a very safe relationship I own another property I can use and have my own money in my own accounts, as well as access to our joint one. I’m aware that’s not true of all mc women, but for myself personally I know I can escape some of the risks self ID bill brings in.

Erasing sex based protections by making ‘women’ something any man can opt into by signing a form effects all women, and will forever once it’s in.

You may not have achieved gaining the necessary level of interest in this matter

RTFT