Conservative manifesto; no mention of GRA

Just to respond further to @ambercarbo ‘s claim that the SNP have dropped GRA reform, it seems on the contrary that plans to proceed with it are very much on:

mobile.twitter.com/mbmpolicy/status/1201928105679556608

The Labour party are the only ones that have vowed to enforce the single sex exemptions in the EA

And the LP also thinks that any man who declares that he is a woman IS actually a woman. Spot the problem yet?

The Labour party are the only ones that have vowed to enforce the single sex exemptions in the EA. I am personally not for amending the GRA if see it scrapped, but the fact is it was lib dems and Tories that introduced all that- and then the lefties get blamed for it. The SNP have dropped the plan to change GRA, and will try persuade the UK parked to do the same

@ambercarbo: The GRA came in under a Labour government. It was mainly opposed by the Conservatives at the time.

The SNP haven't called off plans to amend Scottish law - they said that they were still committed to bringing forward legislation on this. They've just said nothing about it in relation to their manifesto for the UK Parliament. If you can point to somewhere where they have said that they have abandoned their policies on GRA reform and "will try to persuade the UK parked [parliament?] to the same", I'd really like to see a link, please.

Looks rather like the conpervatives have just copied Labour's declaration.

The Labour party are the only ones that have vowed to enforce the single sex exemptions in the EA. I am personally not for amending the GRA -I'd see it scrapped, but the fact is it was lib dems and Tories that introduced all that- and then the lefties get blamed for it. The SNP have dropped the plan to change GRA, and will try persuade the UK parties to do the same.

The Labour party are the only ones that have vowed to enforce the single sex exemptions in the EA. I am personally not for amending the GRA if see it scrapped, but the fact is it was lib dems and Tories that introduced all that- and then the lefties get blamed for it. The SNP have dropped the plan to change GRA, and will try persuade the UK parked to do the same.

Has everyone signed one or all of the petitions now available? Each major party has one and I think it's really important to do so!

I see the Resisters network have shared all the details:

All the parties now have a women's pledge
Labour
ipetitions.com/petition/labour-womens-declaration
Conservative
ipetitions.com/petition/conservative-womens-pledge
Green
ipetitions.com/petition/green-feminists-women-and-girls-declaration?fbclid=IwAR0_EVxp2QQy6YjGiB6jWWmnj6QydET06F9s06S9kZhd-pOYEf67B6rXXWI
Lib Dems
ipetitions.com/petition/lib-dem-sex-based-rights-declaration
SNP

secure.avaaz.org/en/community_petitions/SNP_members_and_supporters_SNP_Womens_Pledge/
WEP
ipetitions.com/petition/wep?fbclid=IwAR0X7oTfPI58pbuMxkB-j75XtrLtk2qwfmSDPf_SKXXr_YAfeUXz3-WkwM0

When I spoke to my Tory mp, I got the impression that they were just going to kick it into the long grass

The trouble with kicking it into the long grass is that that amounts to a refusal to address the massive harms that have already happened. No addressing of regulatory capture, no directives to the EHRC to sort their shit out, just crossing of fingers and hoping it all goes away.

It's too late for that.

I have no idea which faction of the SNP or the Labour Party will win out in either party - whether wokebeards or feminists will end up steering either or the other.

I also have no idea whether feminist Greens and Liberal Democrats (and yes they do exist) will ever be able to get their parties back on the reality rails, but at least the issue is there.

But any party that thinks they can get away with ignoring all this is the worst of the lot, as far as I can see. Because it's too bloody late for that.

Why would anyone who believes in equality vote for the Tories?

Equality begins with an equal footing.

Denying men the right to use women's toilets is not a Gender Critical stance. It's a humanity stance.

Men are the ones who are denying trans people the right to use the toilet of their choice. NOT women.

Women want and need their own spaces. Any trans person who insists a right to female/male spaces is not trans. Trans people totally understand, more than most people, the need for a safe and secure space.

FFS sacrificing the poor and disenfranchised for the sake of Gender Critical? I've heard it all now. And I'm sick and tired of hearing that someone is disenfranchised because of a gender critical stance.

FFS try living hand to mouth.

That distinction - that pause - of asking WHY does this person suddenly appear on my side when nothing else they stand for aligns with me

I think it's often more complicated than that though. I think there are a lot of cases where there is far more overlap, ideologically, than people realise. There are reasons for example traditional leftists and traditional conservatives often overlap. There is a reason working class voters in many places have gone from voting for a leftist party to voting for one that we see as being on the right, there was a real overlap of values. There is a reason so many parties and people on the centre left seem to support globalism, and also neoliberal individualism, and the bourgeoisie business class, just as many conservatives do now (though historically that was the liberal position, not the conservative one.)

One of the things that has happened I think as some people on the left have begun to feel abandoned is that they have realised that some of the other parties, and other political wings, have more overlap or more to offer than they had realised, that they had been too narrow in their thinking about those viewpoints, even assumed the worst about their motives, while doing the opposite with those of their own persuasion.

It can really throw your whole way of thinking about politics.

So are you all signing this petition? Looks like it needs support. I've signed another party one.

I'm particularly unhappy about Jo Swinson's comments about lesbians.

It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of male violence against women.

Does she think rape is just the stage between BDSM and 'oops rough sex gone wrong'?

If they are lying about this, what else are they lying about?

This is one of my concerns. How can you trust anyone who insists that not only can humans change sex, they can do so by filling out a form? It's so blatantly anti logic that either the person saying it is thick as pigshit or they're being dishonest. Neither are qualities I find reassuring in a someone who would like to run a country.

I'd sign if i was a Tory but I'm not. Should i sign anyway?

Probably best to sign the one for the party you'd be most inclined to vote for if this GC stuff wasn't an issue. I think as long as we all sign one of them, it should ensure they all get the same message

Has the SNP created one too?

I think they were first .

Noticed the WEP didn't reference them though in their declaration in this post, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3752222-WEP-womens-declaration and I wondered why not?

I think it's great that women within all the parties are acknowledging that this is an issue and it'd be good to see further cross party cooperation on it too to drive the message home.

I'd sign if i was a Tory but I'm not. Should i sign anyway?

That means all the main four parties have now got a women's rights for single sex spaces. This is good news!

Has the SNP created one too?

Oohoo just seen this .. behold Conservative GC women... This is your moment!

www.ipetitions.com/petition/conservative-womens-pledge

I get that, Thoughtlessinengland. It must be a very difficult position to be in right now.

It's a shit choice for most of us. None of the parties with any chance of Parliamentary influence are clearly going to stop self-ID becoming either law or de facto "law" in the places where it really might cause the harm.

The goal for me is to hope that time helps to solve the problem. That means voting for whichever party which will enable the introduction of self-ID most slowly so that in the meantime the issues get discussed, the consequences become more apparent, and the public becomes more aware.

People who have their reasons (personal, ideological, party-political) to lean towards socialism, conservatism, centrism - continue to have those.

Then there are stark issues which come up. Brexit. GRA. X. or Y. In many cases these stark issues sit comfortably with the voting reasons above. In some other cases they don’t.

So a lifelong centrist who has a pile of reasons to vote Lib Dem might face stark issue of Brexit and it aligns with their vote perfectly and they vote for it. The problem obviously occurs when the same lifelong centrist Lib Dem faces GRA as the stark issue alongside Brexit as stark issue and is left flummoxed.

At that point suddenly this person is faced with (1) stay with centrist ideology, continue to vote with party that aligns with that, and which tackles stark issue A, bit seriously maligns Stark issue B.

(2) withdraw ones vote

(3) go against lifelong politics, and much alignment with various other attributes of party they would otherwise vote for and give the vote to a different party for whom there is nothing but disdain/lack of alignment but (perceived or real) alignment on stark issue B.

So the “dilemma” here is for such people. Not for feminist Tories. Or for feminist right of centre centrists. The problem is for lifelong feminist socialists who are anti TWAW.

In that case it is fair to say that some of them might think - ok - yes, indeed my anti TWAW stark issue is supported by the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg, Peter Bone, Priti Patel, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage. But why? WHY are they on my side on this one? Is it because they are now all radical feminists? Why is the Daily Mail and the Express on my side on this issue? Richard Littlejohn? Why? Are they all now radical feminists? If the answer is a resounding no - then the feminist socialist truly cannot give their vote to these people or those who represent them, prop them and share their politics. Then the feminist socialist who is anti TWAW aid truly homeless. That distinction - that pause - of asking WHY does this person suddenly appear on my side when nothing else they stand for aligns with me - and of asking what are the broader overall implications of giving my feminist socialist vote to these people - often holds the key to the Homelessness for many here. There is not an answer for such politically homeless people but to imagine that they will suddenly find it credible, appetising or even hold-my-nose-and believe that Farage/ReesMogg is my friend on this, is expecting a tad much of them.

Those already aligned with right of centrism, or conservatism and who are anti TWAW are not in a similar boat.

Thanks for the links Justhadathought, I do look at them and take onboard differences of opinion. My logical brain also tries to take onboard other factors such as the economy a government inherits, the promises a previous government made, the current economic climate and the distinction between borrowing and deficit. Yet many of those things are difficult to quantify over very different time periods.

By the way I haven't always voted Tory, I think I've ticked almost every conceivable option over the years. As a younger more idealistic person I was much more left wing but over the years I have drifted further to the right although I don't think I'm a lost cause. A more moderate Labour party (or a Lib Dem one) could win my vote another time.

If you had told me three years ago that I would seriously consider voting Conservative, I would have laughed you out of the house. But here I am, EU citizen, and generally supportive of redistributive policies to protect the weakest in society. I am strongly critical of the way in which Tories have treated especially disabled people, I actually think it's shameful.

BUT the dishonesty about something so basic as human sexual dimorphism, women's biology and the fact of male violence coming from the 'progressive' side has shocked me to the core. If they are lying about this, what else are they lying about?

I am in a safe Labour seat, with the Lib Dems a distant second, so I don't actually think my vote matters but I'm strongly considering giving it to the Tories to make a point. The Labour leadership is taking women for granted and it has to stop.

Lest we forget....

"I'm afraid there is no money."

Liam Byrne 2010