Lib Dems say reforming Gender Recognition Act ‘can’t wait’ and is a manifesto priority

Ah. I see what you mean. Thanks OldCrone. Will see how much opportunity I get.

Not ignorant tilder, unless you're a trans rights activist, a trans widow or a Lib Dem MP/ peer, you've probably never heard of it.

Brace yourself x

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3717872-Trans-Widows-the-Liberal-Democrats-and-the-Spousal-Veto

tilder have a look at this thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3717872-Trans-Widows-the-Liberal-Democrats-and-the-Spousal-Veto

TinselAngel probably a ignorant question, as i feel i should know the answer. Whats thd spousal veto?

Lib Dem policy makers - please watch this, mentally substituting "Liberal Democrat" for "Democrat" throughout.

It just draws attention and publicity to it

But there is already a negative impact.

Children are being taught incoherent nonsense that only makes sense if you think there is a right or wrong way to be male or female because dubious trainers are delivering diversity training.

Medical research into the effects of transition is being curtailed for fear of causing offence.

Academics are being hounded out of their jobs.

Urinals are being declared 'gender neutral' because that sounds inclusive but properly enclosed toilets are too expensive.

The ease in which they've been taken over by a faction and their inability to question or listen to other views indicates (to me) that they would be incapable of negotiating big and difficult issues like Brexit or the NHS.. Agree

When they say transphobic hate crime is at a record high what do they mean? Does anyone have any stats or figures? Do they mean in the UK? What kind of hate crime? Do they mean actual physical violence or do they mean misgendering. Serious question I’d love to know.

i had a lib dem leaflet through the door today. it made me so angry, I wanted to send it back with graffiti on.

they've already said they don't want my vote - why the fuck are they clogging up my recycling bin?

they can keep their trash to themselves thanks.

Also I think by making such a big deal of it we give the trans movement more publicity and make legal changes more likely to happen.

ArialAnna You've got this totally the wrong way round. This is from an article about Christine Burns, one of the campaigners for the original GRA, talking about how that law was passed without most people noticing.

Much of their campaigning remained on the quiet. The passage of the 2004 law to give trans people legal status was "remarkable," says Burns, because "the government was able to pass an entire act in parliament without anyone throwing a fit in the press".

The self-ID reforms would have gone the same way, and we would now have a law that says any man is a woman if he says he is, had it not been for people noticing what was happening and campaigning against it.

Well that's helped to confirm my vote. No thanks Lib Dems!

Surely before anyone does any reforming the views collected from the consultation need publishing?
Doubt it - a party that will simply ignore a referendum will have the same contempt for a consultation.

This: Discussion of women's rights is shut down because it is transphobic and not 'inclusive' of people whose sex is male, but I can't defend my rights if I can't talk about sex.

I've heard millions of people argue that women should vote based on bigger things because this issue is relatively minor.

But it isn't. Being able to define woman and protect sex based rights is absolutely core to being able to meet the needs of women.

Our interests are not best served in a 'utopia' that treats us exactly the same as men and ignores our reality.

But I don't get how such a small number of people identifying as different gender affects me self defining as a women.

Whether or not you self define as a woman is irrelevant. Your ability to participate in society may be restricted because

1). Others perceive you to be female and restrict your right to vote, travel alone etc.
2). you experience the physical consequences of being female in a society designed around people who have male anatomies.

You cannot protects rights for a group of people you can't define. It would be like trying to talk about the plight of polar bears if we all had to agree that a polar bear could also be small and brown and live in a burrow in Surrey.

But trans people make up an estimated 0.2% - 0.5% of the population

And women make up at least 50% of the population.

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick - the problem isn't trans people having rights, the problem is women losing rights.

When the Old Vic decides that they are going to make all toilets gender neutral and don't recognise that (even leaving aside safety concerns) women can't actually use urinals, they disadvantage women.

Discussion of women's rights is shut down because it is transphobic and not 'inclusive' of people whose sex is male, but I can't defend my rights if I can't talk about sex.

Shame on you, Liberal Democrats. You've got this totally wrong. I hope you get wiped out in the GE.

And the LibDems are dead to me. The ease in which they've been taken over by a faction and their inability to question or listen to other views indicates (to me) that they would be incapable of negotiating big and difficult issues like Brexit or the NHS.

I actually now believe they would be quite dangerous in a position of power as they would be so easily manipulated.

Also I think by making such a big deal of it we give the trans movement more publicity and make legal changes more likely to happen.

Sshhhhh women. Stop talking about their actual policies. Play nicely.

14th Rule of misogyny- women have all the rights they needs, the right to remain silent.

I ask again ArialAnna, do you think I'm a Tory troll because I recently started a thread about the Lib Dems?

ArialAnna
For such such a tiny group they have acquired an influence that is frankly staggering. They have wholesale removed sex based rights for women and children across the country - schools, theatres, hospital wards, prisons, sport, our very language - seeking no debate or consensus - just with threats and bullying. Children have been sold the fantasy that they have been born in the wrong body and there is an explosion of girls with co morbidities transitioning (ROGD). There has been a total regulatory capture of medicine, the law, education, the civil service and all our institutions and everyone is too frightened to suggest that born men shouldn't be competing against women in sport or that male born rapists and sex offenders are a threat to the safety of vulnerable women in prison.

You may not be concerned about any of this, but I see it as sinister and threatening to everyone's wellbeing and safety if the LIb Dems, Labour Party etc enshrine in law that being a woman is a feeling in a man's head.

But so many changes have sneaked in before most* women started noticing. So I don't believe the argument that publicity makes change more likely. In fact, if it wasn't for publicity the GRA changes would probably already be law and women's rights would be screwed.

• Obviously some smart women recognised what was happening/could happen ages ago.

A small part but pushing agenda in schools, businesses and law. That’s pretty sinister.

But trans people make up an estimated 0.2% - 0.5% of the population. And that includes trans men. Is it
really worth dying on that hill? I just don't get it. I'm sympathetic to some of the issues raised. For example I definitely don't think trans women should compete in sports events as women. But I don't get how such a small number of people identifying as different gender affects me self defining as a women. I don't understand how is it more important that brexit or climate change.

Also I think by making such a big deal of it we give the trans movement more publicity and make legal changes more likely to happen. It's like those situations when a small number of far right neo nazis march, and a much larger number of well meaning but ultimately misguided people form a counter march. It just draws attention and publicity to it and makes those on the far right think it's worth doing, whereas if they just let those 15 far right folk walk down the street while everyone got on with their shopping and normal lives around them, they'd feel very silly...

More women die, week in, week out, by male violence in your constituency than trans women, Christine Jardine.

Yours
a constituent who would have voted Lib Dem, but, who now won't because the party does not care about women. And, I'm not sure you do, either.

Another one on the same hill. The Lib Dems have an outrageous attitude to GC women. Their LGBT twitter account has been a cesspit of misogyny and hatred - I suspect it's being more closely monitored at the moment but the screen shots are available everywhere. I left the party because of their attitude to this and their complete lack of concern for the safeguarding of children.
They are a disgrace to democracy - and all this is clearly evidenced by their own words - no Tory trolls are necessary. They show what they think of women's sex based rights and child safety every time they open their mouths.

There have been so many threads on MN about the Lib Dems being anti gender critical, I'm beginning to get suspicious that they are being posted by Tory trolls... in fact is that you Boris?

That’s right, because quoting the actual words of LibDems from their own mouths is trolling them. Actual quotes, from the horses mouth, and excepts from their published priorities.

Really?

@ArialAnna

But if self Id goes full steam ahead, I won't exist, so I wont matter, neither will any woman; adult human female. I cant vote for any party that will shoo in self Id.
All the other important stuff means nothing if half the population dont count.