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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reply from Home Office re DBS and GRC

67 replies

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 12/09/2019 22:12

I contacted my MP after the questions raised on the thread linked below. I asked for clarification about identity checks for DBS could be verified if someone has a GRC and is living with a new identity.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3653715-Challenor-showing-off-their-new-birth-certificate.

MP didn't bother to reply but I have received the following "correspondence reply" from the Home Office.

Thank you for your email xxx to the Minister for Children and Families about the Disclosure Barring Service ( DBS and your concerns on the effectiveness of the checks that are made on people who are transgender , which has been passed to the Home Office for a reply.

One of the important roles of the DBS is to help employers make safer recruitment deci-sions to ensure that people who want to work with children and vulnerable adults do not have a previous record of causing them harm. An essential part of this public protection role is to check the identity of the applicant through the verification of the documents they use to prove their identity. DBS checks are therefore dependent upon being able to con-firm and verify all names used by an individual when checking whether they might pose a threat to others, for example whether they have been convicted of a serious offence.

For these very important reasons, applicants for a DBS check are asked to produce doc-uments from a primary set (a current valid passport issued by any country, UK photo card driving licence, UK biometric residence permit or a UK birth certificate issued within 12 months of birth) together with other trusted Government issued documents or finan-cial/social history documents. This includes ensuring that the applicant provides details of all addresses where they have lived in the last five years. The DBS guidance has been carefully constructed to ensure that the process is as secure as possible and is kept under review.

Our policies must adhere to the important protections afforded to transgender people, such as protecting an individual’s gender history, which are enshrined in the Gender Recogni-tion Act 2004.

Being able to validate an identity is a crucial part of ensuring that a criminal record disclo-sure is sent to the right person, rather than to someone who has adopted a false identity in order to hide a criminal past. The Government believes that the above process provides the right balance of maintaining high standards of identity checking, whilst at the same time, not being so restrictive that it prevents legitimate applicants from completing the DBS identity checking process.

I hope this is helpful in explaining the position.

So basically "an essential part of this public protection role is to check the identity of the applicant through the verification of the documents they use to prove their identity" unless they have a GRC and then it doesn't matter.

There is no safeguarding.

OP posts:
Datun · 13/09/2019 10:06

I'm really struggling with the issue that the person being checked for criminal history, is the one everyone is relying on to offer the information that they have changed their name (trans, or otherwise).

It makes a DBS check utterly pointless.

LangCleg · 13/09/2019 09:43

Is that right?

Yes, Datun. In all its safeguarding horror, that is right.

DickKerrLadies · 13/09/2019 09:42

Perhaps all those expressing (misguided) outrage might want to put down their megaphones and examine their reasons for jumping to the conclusions they have?

I do love the irony of people saying this about us when they rarely read anything we actually say and they're just looking for things they can argue against.

FamilyOfAliens · 13/09/2019 07:09

So employers are allowed to trawl back through someone’s embarrassing social media posts from when they were a young and impressionable teenager, and possibly choose not to employ them based on what they find, and yet a transgender person is allowed to erase the truth of their birth sex from the same employer?

FamilyOfAliens · 13/09/2019 07:06

So RobinMoiraWhite, any chance you could respond, given your post?

Oh, you’re a hoot, Datun.

CharlieParley · 13/09/2019 02:02

Probably just pointing out the obvious here, but the following passage is distressingly disingenuous.

Our policies must adhere to the important protections afforded to transgender people, such as protecting an individual’s gender history, which are enshrined in the Gender Recogni-tion Act 2004.

If you read the GRA, the explanatory notes and all statutory guidance, it is clear, that those carrying out these checks on behalf of end users are of course not only allowed to see a person's transgender history, examine and check it, they also must under certain circumstances alert the end user that an individual has changed identity (end users thus informed of someone possessing a GRC are forbidden from revealing this information. The penalties are severe.)

I repeat, the Home Office itself in carrying out these checks is not only supposed to know and evaluate, they also must (under a very limited set of circumstances) reveal this to certain end users.

The passage above however is worded to give the impression that even those carrying out these checks aren't allowed to know, let alone pass on a subject's GRC-status. This is inaccurate and misleading. If this is what the Home Office itself believes, one may wonder whether they are capable of doing the job they are supposed to do even when an individual discloses their previous identity.

Thingybob · 13/09/2019 01:37

The only person that sees the documents is the employer or the organisation arranging the DBS check as it is their duty to verify that the person is who they say they are. From there the name (or names if they have given previous names) are checked against the relevant databases. I assume the weak link is somebody not declaring a previous name and that could equally apply to somebody changing their name after marriage as well as somebody changing their name due to a GRC.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 13/09/2019 00:57

LoveGrowsWhere, it's my recollection that not only did Ian Huntley fly under the radar because intelligence about his previous behaviours held by police was not shared, but the DBS service was set up precisely in response to this. So that relevant information held by various organisations that would indicate that a person could be a risk would be collated and shared under DBS regs.

Datun · 13/09/2019 00:26

So if a trans person gave their new certificate it would alert the DBS to a change. Which they could ask about. But there's no way to force an answer.

And they don't have to use their birth certificate anyway.

Is that right?

Thingybob · 13/09/2019 00:12

twitter.com/AimeeChallenor/status/1156909958463705093

Aimee's certificate is dated 31/07/2019

Thingybob · 13/09/2019 00:09

It means issued more than 12 months after birth. All birth certificates are dated, my original is dated a couple of weeks after I was born whereas replacement certificates would have the date they were issued.

Datun · 13/09/2019 00:04

What does 'issued after time of birth' mean, thingy? Aren't all birth certificates issued after birth? I don't get it.

Thingybob · 13/09/2019 00:01

For these very important reasons, applicants for a DBS check are asked to produce doc-uments from a primary set (a current valid passport issued by any country, UK photo card driving licence, UK biometric residence permit or a UK birth certificate issued within 12 months of birth) together with other trusted Government issued documents or finan-cial/social history documents.

This isn't correct. Yes you can provide a document from that primary set to prove identity but if you do not have one of those then you just provide a document from a second list that includes "birth certificate - issued after time of birth"

Datun · 12/09/2019 23:59

I have asked my MSP to repeat the question about whether Disclosure Scotland would be able to know about a previous identity, if a trans person did not tell them about it.

Good. I mean it's not complicated, is it? It's a very simple, straightforward question. If they don't tell you, how do you know?

All these paragraphs of waffle do not fill one with confidence.

Mxyzptlk · 12/09/2019 23:57

I've asked my MSP to make the same enquiry to Disclosure Scotland about their PVG checks (Protection of Vulnerable Groups).

So far, the MSP has sent 2 emails and had 2 replies - linking to the website which states that a trans person should write a letter to notify Disclosure Scotland of their previous sex and name, and confirming that the previous sex and name will be kept completely confidential.

I have asked my MSP to repeat the question about whether Disclosure Scotland would be able to know about a previous identity, if a trans person did not tell them about it.

Fallingirl · 12/09/2019 23:55

This is like the Green Party policy of always assuming the best in people.

If everyone is honest, DBS checks are useful. Ignoring that if everyone was honest, we wouldn’t need DBS checks. They are pointing out their own superfluousness..

LoveGrowsWhere · 12/09/2019 23:54

Huntley happened because his history didn't follow him.

Datun · 12/09/2019 23:42

I think we all understand that if they are honest, the crimes will be revealed to the employer, but not under the original name. Thereby protecting their original identity.

But if they're not honest?

You know, like every paedophile in the country?

CatalogueUniverse · 12/09/2019 23:40

Just reading the dbs info on .gov

Yeah that’s wide open. Passport, driving licence and one other document where the issuer will have used the first two as proof of identity.

Datun · 12/09/2019 23:40

You don't have to provide a birth certificate, original or altered. It's one of a choice of documents.

Got it.

So RobinMoiraWhite, any chance you could respond, given your post?

LangCleg · 12/09/2019 23:34

Birth certificate issued within 12 months of birth.

You don't have to provide a birth certificate, original or altered. It's one of a choice of documents.

LangCleg · 12/09/2019 23:33

There is no loophole.

Oh give over. It's tired.

Datun · 12/09/2019 23:31

If the new birth certificate has the current date, how does it work? If they say where is your original certificate, and you say I don't have it, it's gone. What next?

CatalogueUniverse · 12/09/2019 23:27

Birth certificate issued within 12 months of birth. Where is the date issued on the certificate? Does it change if the details change?

TeaForDad · 12/09/2019 23:26

I still can't believe anyone ever thought, or still does think, that a birth certificate should be changed and effectively back-dated.
Insane