"Would you date a trans person?" Mostly, no. So you're basically killing them.

So being same sex attracted ( which automatically excludes all males) is not really the same as excluding short people or blondes

@AlwaysComingHome

Sorry to bang on. Of course we all have the right to exclude whoever we want for whatever reason. But what I think I'm trying to say is we shouldn't diminish a sexuality by reducing it to a simple preference.

However lesbians also have the right to exclude transmen who are compatible with their orientation if they wish and heterosexual women have the right to exclude transwomen who are compatible with ours.

I think lesbians have the right to exclude blondes or brunettes or redheads if they want, or short women, or tall women, or fat or thin.

Basically, nobody owes you the ‘right’ for everyone else to find you attractive. Whether somebody else finds you attractive is entirely their affair.

he is

Phew, thought he'd done something wrong.

Me too! I think is a very talented actor and I was worried for a minute I'd have to drop him like my Converse.

TruthOnTrial

"fanny gallops"

🤣
I'm sending you my ENT bill as my infected sinus just had a coffee flush thanks to you... DH thought I was choking to death lol. Thanks for the hearty laugh!

On smell...

I have a killer sense of smell, I am also Bi. Barring uncleanliness and diseases that produce odor natural smells vary in intensity and range.

I love to bury my face in my DH's armpits sans deodorant... his natural smell is intoxicating (even with a clean sweat). Previous male partner natural smells were a turn-off. But his smell takes me back in time to the beginning of our life together to now - comforting at times and arousing most others, his armpit smell is magical. Male genital smells are not a turn-on IMO but DH's is not repulsive like every other guy I slept with - DH's works for me. I could pick him out of a smell lineup very easily.

All of my female partner's smells were tantalizing except one. From armpits to ladybits each of us have our own brand of natural fragrance. The women who were active and ate healthy always smelled best.

Here's the thing... male smell is a male, female smell is female. MTF may have surgical bits that look convincing but they likely will not smell convincing... lack of self cleaning genitals I think would give them away even if the rest of their body is cloaked in fragrance. Same goes for FTM... a surgically created member is likely not going to smell male. To each their own - some may find the opposite mix of smells and genitals arousing, just not my cup of tea.

Smell is an important part of romantic chemistry IMO.

I just mention this because of the cotton ceiling debacle and the persistent shaming of lesbian sexuality by transwomen

@ArnoldWhatshisknickers

That's true, you can exclude people just on the basis they're trans. Or because you don't like their accent or for any reason. I just wanted to point out that having a particular sexuality automatically excludes certain people and there should be no questions asked.

Thank you for the welcome sane people.

I think it's important to recognize that when a lesbian says no to a transwomen it's not because of her preferences which we all have, it's because of her sexuality I.e she is same sex attracted and that automatically excludes transwomen.

I certainly wouldn't suggest otherwise given the endless shit lesbians get.

However lesbians also have the right to exclude transmen who are compatible with their orientation if they wish and heterosexual women have the right to exclude transwomen who are compatible with ours.

Everyone has the right to exclude trans people because they are trans, just as we are all free to exclude any other ideological grouping we damn well please. Incompatible beliefs rarely make for a happy relationship.

Phew, thought he'd done something wrong. I love him

Ah, too slow.

Idris Elba is frequently seen (on mumsnet) as the hottest man alive. The fact he isn't dating the people commenting is literally killing them, he even had the cheek to pick one woman to marry.

AFAIK

A lot posters want to date Idris Elba. He cannot/will not/is blissfully unaware.

Under the current trans-think, he is literally killing them.

forthed
What's he/she done?

QueQueQue

Could someone explain the idris Elba thing please?

Seconded!!!! Please?!?!?

You don't need to have kids, Mermoose. Lots of regulars don't. I do, but mine are far too old for most of the boards to be relevant. We get some blokes too. Some are lovely, though we get the tedious MRA/TRA types who erupt onto the board spitting venom and then crash 'n burn. The abuse they get away with everywhere else gets them banned sharpish here.

Can tell how effective this board is by the obsessive scrutiny FWR gets from TRAs. Nothing worse than women with opinions talking without male supervision.

men that don't annoy me

THIS IS MY ONE DATING RULE!

(And it rules out a good 90% of the cockwombles, however they identify.)

Welcome ArnoldWhatshisknickers. I like the cut of your jib!

Could someone explain the idris Elba thing please?

That's a TWELVE-FOLD increase.
I can well believe it. I gave up Twitter because it's just too head-wrecking (for all sorts of reasons but the unfair, blatantly misogynistic management was the clincher). But the gender debate is one that just preys on you once you're aware of it. I needed somewhere I could see that other people are sane, I also wanted to keep track of how things are going - if anyone else has spoken up etc. That's why I'm here. I don't even have kids.

I think it's important to recognize that when a lesbian says no to a transwomen it's not because of her preferences which we all have, it's because of her sexuality I.e she is same sex attracted and that automatically excludes transwomen.

While it is important that women are able to say they can choose who they want to sleep with based on XYZ it's important not to reduce lesbian sexuality to "a preference".

When I was young most of the men I slept with had long hair and some wore eyeliner. I still find that look attractive. But they were entirely male and enthusiastically heterosexual. Wouldn't have fancied them otherwise.

Good to meet you, ArnoldWhatshisknickers. Please hang around. This is the most vibrant feminist group in the anglophone world. There's been an explosion in the number of women accessing the Feminism board on Mumsnet as women become aware how gender ideology harms women and children.

Here's BarrackerBarmer's OP from last year:

Number of people entering the MN site via the Feminist Chat topic:

June 2016: 15,000
June 2018: 177,000

That's a TWELVE-FOLD increase.

And that's just people entering the MN site directly into femchat. Lots of people enter Mumsnet via other routes like active talk, and then navigate to the feminism boards next.

Bluerussian
LassofFyfie, there definitely is a male and a fthiemale smell, even on someone scrupulously clean and even if they use perfumed products. It's just there and unmistakeable

There might be for you but not for me. You can add as many "definitelys" as you want - still won't make it true. For me people smell of their own smells, clean, unwashed, sweaty, cheap perfume, expensive perfume.

Horses, sheep and cattle have a distinctive smell as do some dogs. My cats don't (litter trays aside). Their fur is soft and warm but has no particular smell