Pronouns in email signature

absolutely understand that often in a workplace there is huge unconscious bias towards women at work... But hiding or playing down my female identity from others at work won't stop them from being sexist.

Of course it will if you only communicate via email and use initials or a gender neutral name.

Mad to think it won’t.

I struggle enough to remember people's names/ recognise their voices on group calls.

This is going to be a nightmare.

I guess I don't see how me talking about my gender identity would help, I think it would hurt me e

It's not female for what it's worth, although my biology is

I just don't see that a man knowing I don't identify with the female gender would suddenly stop talking over me. I don't see that a potential rapist would change their mind if they knew. I just expect I would get more bullying

I have spent my life demonstrating that societies limited understanding of the female capabilities is wrong . And I suspect that has done more to help the women behind me than any talking about my inner identity will ever do

Hey - Just reading back the replies. Sorry the link I shared is behind a paywall. I didn't realise as for some reason I can access it and I'm not a subscriber... Not sure why!

The link is to a piece written by Amia Srinivasan called "He, She, One, They, Ho, Hus, Hum, Ita".... In it there is a small anecdote about how they accidentally misgendered someone in their class, and were mortified they did this. I quote from their writing: "I now plan to start each term by asking my students to email me if they would like to tell me their preferred pronouns or share them with their fellow students. It isn’t a perfect policy, but I hope it will help me avoid further mistakes. "

Perhaps this is another / better solution employers could put into practice rather than email in signature option? That does mean employers have to be open and willing to have this conversation in the first place. I guess that a step is being taken by using this issue of "pronouns in an email signature" as a starting point? OK so maybe it's not the solution to tackling misgendering people at work, but it's a place to begin to conversation at work? I guess thats why we are all here now on this thread anyway ?

I read this this morning - a UNISON pdf (no paywall): www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2018/03/24861.pdf

It doesn't mention anything about putting pronouns in an email signature of course, but it feels related as it's about how to be better informed about equality for trans people.

Also, I would add to the bringing up of Feminism and Women's rights, absolutely, I see myself as a feminist and absolutely understand that often in a workplace there is huge unconscious bias towards women at work... But hiding or playing down my female identity from others at work won't stop them from being sexist. I recognise I am saying that from a privileged place - not everyone can openly claim their identity or just be themselves safely. So all I can do is use my own privilege to bring light to gender identity politics at work because I feel safe to do so. Putting pronouns in a signature might be a "trend" right now but the wider idea behind it - being able to make space to talk openly about identity and not misgendering people, will benefit us all. I wish we lived in a world that had equal pay, didn't have unconscious bias, and wasn't sexist, racist, discriminatory in any way. The only way I can see us reaching that goal is if we talk to each other about these issues. The email signature thing might a tiny, tiny thing - and perhaps not even appropriate in the future - but I'm glad it was a thing, because since googling it a few days ago and posting on this thread I have learnt SO much (and will continue to do so) about trans issues, gender issues.. work ethics.. and reading comments from different POVs is always enlightening. It's proof in my case that the email signature debate thing worked in getting me to go out and find more information!

Also sharing a link to this book - which Amia Srinivasan had mentioned in their article behind the paywall (weird that I could access it...) Think I'll give it a read. You can read some of it for free via amazon if intrigued: www.amazon.co.uk/Whats-Your-Pronoun-Beyond-She/dp/1631496042?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

...I'll try and find it from an indie bookseller to buy tho ;)

thanks for the replies, I've been wracking my brain over that for a while now!

@EyesOpening, IIRC, the board used to be called Feminism & Women's Rights. The acronym FWR just stuck, I'm guessing.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3281196-FWR

Feminism & Women’s Rights

It’s what this board used to be called so when you see FWR on Mumsnet it’s just referring to the feminist section on the site (ie, where we are now).

What does FWR stand for please?

hally, I was prepared to accept that link in good faith but it’s paywalled. So I’m going to stick with my original position, that pronouns on email signatures are bad for the woman awning the email and bad for the woman receiving the emails. On FWR we look for the proven benefit of the 51% rather thn mimicking current fashions.

My username gives some clue as to how I responded to this request in my workplace.

What I don't get is how this works in practice.

I have worked for a few big global orgs with large project teams across the areas.

With pronouns they are used when the person isn't there e.g. oh X is off sick can you ask him to send an update when he's back.

You've never met X , they live in a different country, you have only heard a couple of lines X had said on calls.

So now it goes, oh X is off sick please can you ask ..... zir to send an update when zey are back...

In practice it'll default to using they or their name won't it?

I don’t WANT to ‘share identities respectfully’ on my emails! I just want to send them, be taken seriously, and be answered promptly by efficient, competent, polite people. No need for anyone to know whether I’m male/female/self-obsessed/wearing pyjamas... as long as I’m doing my job.

Ah, yes someone spotted I am new to this. I don't know what 'Zombie' is but I assume commenting on old posts isn't the done thing!

Just want to add that in my journey of learning about pronouns and what our attitude should be towards using them in email signatures etc... I do agree that there should be absolutely no pressure on anyone to disclose, if one does not want to. There are lots of reasons why one wouldn't want too. Gender and identity are complex and very personal. So I would agree that it would be wrong for employers to force people to announce their pronouns.

Me realising that I want to add mine to my signature, is just offering up another perspective to this thread, as I feel comfortable in doing so. That's not me telling anyone else they should too.

I am genuinely interested in learning about the complexities and the ideas surrounding the wider issue of using pronouns and how we share our identities respectfully. Hence, joining a thread to share an idea, and then reflecting back on this.

I came across this article, which I found an interesting read with some interesting ideas and a helpful anecdote about how they try to solve the problem of being aware of other peoples pronouns;

www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n13/amia-srinivasan/he-she-one-they-ho-hus-hum-ita

Someone else might find it interesting too?

she/ra is my current favourite.

There are plenty of jolly fine pronouns that never seem to get a look in. Be fair, and give ‘someone/anyone/neither’ an outing in your email.

If I were asked I’d put something like
Pronouns: I/me - learn their proper function and use them correctly

Was reading this, saw a comment that looked good and scrolled up to see the poster.. LangCleg! I thought WOW, she's back!!

Someone else said exactly the same

When women complain about stuff like this we're told it's not a big deal, there are much bigger issues in the world, it's 'just' how things are etc. etc. Does it really matter if letters are addressed to Mr & Mrs [Husbands Initial] Surname? - it's more annoying for women to mention it so just stop talking about it, it's embarrassing.

When men complain about this stuff everyone agrees with them that it's literal violence and we should all change things to make sure these Terrible Things never happen again. Go and repent some more, just to be sure.

Was reading this, saw a comment that looked good and scrolled up to see the poster.. LangCleg! I thought WOW, she's back!!

Then saw it was 2019. :(

Why would someone I'm emailing need to know my 3rd person pronouns?

Are they expected to keep a database so when they are emailing someone else and referring to me they can ensure they use the correct ones in case I somehow find out and dont give a shit feel invalidated as a person?

For the record, I am constantly being addressed as "Mr" or "sir" over email and I really couldn't care less 🤷‍♀️

There is also plenty of good evidence that the sender of the email internalises the stereotypes of the pronouns.
For instance women in a patriarchal society become less assertive, less risk taking, when constantly reminded they are female.

Not sure if the original poster is still reading the replies but the answer is simple - just say no and refuse to discuss it.

If you don't feel comfortable doing that or they insist on a reason, say 'You assume that every person is going to be comfortable with a) Disclosing their gender identity, and b) Declaring that for all to see on an email, and that's not right. Do you ask everyone what sexual orientation they have, and then expect them to declare that to the world on email too?

That should really shut them up. You don't have to add the last sentence unless you are pushed, but just listing a & b should get them to think about what they're asking. Just say you're not comfortable with disclosing either way, but don't let them label you as 'them' either. If I was asking for trouble, I would list 'bo' or 'ray' as my pronouns or something like that. How would they know they weren't? Apparently, there are over a hundred pronouns. Are they really going to look and if they aren't there, are they really going do dare argue with you over it? XD

Lol @AskDan. I used to work in a very cult-like, oppressive environment where any woman with a brain was a target. I think I was mildy told off once because my email to someone seen as higher than me was a bit too direct, and the reason why I think is because I didn't make enough of an effort to appear small, friendly and inoffensive in front of their greatness and and smilies everywhere.