The Rumplestiltskin Law

twinklystar23 I think you’re right we should absolutely be raising this with our MPs.

I’ve just posted on another thread that this consultation breaches the code of conduct set out by the government on how consultations should be carried out.

They haven’t made it accessible. They didn’t raise awareness of it. They also shouldn’t have had it running over the summer holidays when lots of people are unable to find time to do it. Also, it is unnecessarily complicated.

Here’s the thread which has more details:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3651968-The-illegitimacy-of-the-Rumplestiltskin-Surrogacy-consultation

Here’s the contact details of who to complain to:

Better Regulation Executive
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform 1 Victoria Street
London
SW1H 0ET
Telephone: 020 7215 0352 E-mail: [email protected]

FannyCann Yes I thought that I can really see this happening, re; the NHS, why should the british taxpayer be funding any of this. IP should be expected to pay for the surrogates health to the end of her life. I ended up with a LTC as a result of pregnancy, though this didn't onset immediately following birth. As point 5 I made, that we could be looking at increased costs, if the genetic material does "not belong" to the birth mother.. Think you are doing a good job on completing the consultation, someone upthread was a lawyer who was finding the wording obstructive (think that was said!)
Which brings me to my next point. Should we not be raising this with MP'S? that this is not designed as a public consultation, it appears to be written for those "with experience of surrogacy" which appears to favour individuals and organisations who will directly benefit from this.

Link to the thread I started about the consultation.

I've read all 118 questions and am beginning to formulate answers to the ones I am most concerned about and will be gradually posting my answers, so hopefully others will also reply to the consultation.

Building families through surrogacy: A new Law - Consultation www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultation

Good points twinklystar23

Point 3 is a real concern to me, that UK should become a surrogacy destination with international buyers taking advantage of our NHS to save themselves medical costs.
There are questions in the consultation re International arrangements and I will be asking for international surrogacy arrangements to be banned outright.

The main issues that stand out to me are.
1 Law commission being all male (well off?) with no female representation whatsoever. Important to have more diversity of opinion .

1. The public consultation document is not written for the public or lay opinion.

1. Protections for surrogates especially women with LD, young women or those who may be living in poverty.
2. Earlier thread on the Rumpelstiltskin law had with American experts one said that genetic material, i.e an egg that doesn't belong to the birth mother has a greater chance of being a high risk pregnancy.

This shouidl be a human rights issue and rights of the child.

I just also think as a mother of three that not to include women who have had a child as stakeholders is disturbing.

Bump

Imagine being the adult who discovers they were sold as a baby

Not only that but that the "parents" who bought you exploited the impoverished woman who gave birth to you and left her to take her chances after the earthquake.

SALe of babies seems so wrong. I used to find that tv programme long lost families fascinating. The number of adopted adults who really needed to understand why their mother gave them up. Usually happy ending, child discovers mother loved them but was 16 and bullied into it for example.
Imagine being the adult who discovers they were sold as a baby

Horrible yes, but I wouldn't consider the woman in Nepal my "mother".

Most if not all of the couples involved in this case were gay men.

Every human being that has ever existed has had a mother. If 'the woman in Nepal' - ie the woman who created that child from her own body and then used that body to give birth to it - is not that child's mother, then who is?

Agile lass thanks for posting and the video states interesting facts (of what are currently known) that surrogate births are high risk pregnancies to the mothers health, impact on the child is dismissed. They make the point to remove the young of any animal, (citing if one where to buy a puppy or kitten) that it is cruel and a wait in these cases of 6-8 weeks is lawful.
Think the money should be taken out of the equation, it's so wrong on so many levels.
Babies are not for sale.

Posted on the R4 Surrogacy programme thread as well:

Just to let you know I had a reply from the law commission on the surrogacy consultation and there will be another London event (one was held on 12th July, did anyone go or even hear about this?) in mid-Sept - keep an eye out.

twitter.com/brandonambro/status/1149727620038369281?s=21

Car crash thread on this topic from this woke bro dude, who’s trying to find a “carrier” so that he and his husband can become parents. He rightly got his arse handed to him for his dehumanising language, but has doubled down, including telling Karen Ingala Smith “Not sure how you consider yourself to be a feminist, but you should start with taking seriously women’s experiences.”

He’s also studying for a PhD in theological ethics from a Catholic institution

heterosexual couples who expect a baby to be provided for them if they're passed 30 and can't conceive

Better adoption than abused kids being left in foster care forever though ?

Regarding human rights , it's a human right for a single man to buy a baby from a woman. So he has more money than women because of his class, and then he uses that money to buy a baby off a woman who doesn't have much money because if her class

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=rightsinfo.org/a-human-rights-legal-challenge-means-the-law-has-changed-to-allow-single-parents-to-have-a-child-through-surrogacy" target="_blank">https://rightsinfo.org/a-human-rights-legal-challenge-means-the-law-has-changed-to-allow-single-parents-to-have-a-child-through-surrogacy/

Before expecting a mother to leave her abusive partner, ask her "have you got a place to go?" " Can you afford the rent alone ?" "Can you afford childcare?" "Does your income cover the expenses you need to raise a child?" The answer will be no. So they stay.

Nah. Family for my mum a house through the council after she went into a refuge. They helped her financially, got her moved in, he was in prison. She invited him back, nothing to do with finances. I don't think you are correct at all.

Older parents are seen by the state as being able to provide more stability to a baby than the actual birth mother , but these babies are coming from down and out women who can't get rid of their abusive boyfriends ( because they're financially dependent), or who might be prostituting themselves, or who simply can't afford a place to live.

I'm sure for some that's the case, in others they are just shitty mums who don't deserve their kids.

I just can't imagine growing up and finding that my "parents" exploited an impoverished woman from abroad to buy me. Remember the earthquake in Nepal, when Israel sent a chartered flight to evacuate a group of surrogate babies leaving the mothers to their fate. How could one have any respect for people who had treated one's mother like that?

Horrible yes, but I wouldn't consider the woman in Nepal my "mother".

Tens of thousands protest in Israel because gay men don't have the right to surrogacy. I just cannot get over how much women are hated and it saddens me

slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/tens-of-thousands-protest-in-israel-over-denial-of-surrogacy-rights-for-gay-men.html

That’s good that they have public consultation events in Manchester, Exeter, Brighton, Cardiff and Birmingham.
But seems a bit odd that they don’t have any Scottish events or London events listed given that they are covering England, Wales and Scotland with these proposals.

Yes it's a very long consultation. I think I have to devote at least a weekend to it.
I'm at work so can't click to book a place until later but hopefully there will be space.

Really l9ng consultation but I'm working my way through it.

Thanks Fanny I've emailed about a consultation** event in London as I see that's missing off the list.

A relevant thread...

Carriers v Spurters www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3638362-carriers-v-spurters

I have just found that there are some consultation events. I can get to the one in Cardiff next week. I'm going.

Bumping this important thread. This public consultation closes in September.

Just bumping and place marking.