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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this legal?

61 replies

Pinkpanther473 · 10/05/2019 07:30

Long time lurker
I went to a training course yesterday and the toilets were gender neutral (if right word)
It looked like the male and female signs had just been taken off.
It was two sets of two cubicles and a shared basin area. Cubicles were fairly high walls but with a gap at the top and bottom and the shared space was quite tiny.

I went in one and there was a man there who also looked disoriented and I jumped which was embarrassing. He left saying he was looking for a cleaning cupboard (random) and I used the toilet looking at one sign telling me to check my breasts for breast cancer signs and another sign next to me encouraging me to check my testicles with helpful pictures of hands holding walnuts.

Anyway I’m going to the course again today and I’m not keen on the toilets being unisex. I have some past experiences that might be making me feel more than usually nervous, also maybe I’m not used to this.

I thought that toilets could still be separate although you had to accept people to use it who identify as feminine or masculine?

Isn’t it still the law to have separate spaces to use the toilet?

OP posts:
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VickyEadie · 10/05/2019 18:34

Have you not been on holiday abroad? Unisex loos are everywhere.

I've travelled extensively "abroad" and refute your statement. I also lived in a European country in which women would have chased the men out with a feckin' pointed stick if there'd been any suggestion of toilets becoming unisex.

ThatCurlyGirl · 10/05/2019 17:55

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

As an abuse victim - thank you for speaking up about this to them.

Potentially useless contribution but I can't help but say it - I'm just so sad this is going on. I feel let down, marginalised and almost defeated by this shit. Almost. But not quite, so I'll keep speaking up.

Thank you again Thanks

Pinkpanther473 · 10/05/2019 17:46

Thanks to you guys I got the courage to write it on the anonymous feedback form!
also pulled the ‘let’s check our testicles’ poster off the wall above the sink and put it in the bin

OP posts:
MoltenLasagne · 10/05/2019 17:41

Holy shit OP - that update is a bombshell. Of all places where you’d expect companies to be aware of the importance of single sex spaces, ones working with abuse survivors would top my list.

CharlieParley · 10/05/2019 17:25

Actually, come to think of it, survivors are overrepresented in this line of work. So if they are training on this, and they have these toilets that do not take survivors particular needs into account, they have shown themselves to be spectacularly ignorant. Or uncaring.

CharlieParley · 10/05/2019 17:20

WTF Pinkpanther473 a course about trauma and abuse? With 44% of UK women being victims of either physical or sexual male violence (and that is just the official statistic!), they have a statistical chance of almost 1 in 2 women they train actually being abuse victims and they deny these potential survivors their legal right to privacy and dignity and safety? FFS

Btw, I was at an inaugural meeting of a new libfem group last year and out of a dozen women every single one had experienced male violence. I honestly think that official 44% number is too low.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 10/05/2019 14:46

The only people using the loo in my home are people I know.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 10/05/2019 14:03

ShockShockShock

I guess they're too woke to see the irony of that situation.

Pinkpanther473 · 10/05/2019 13:19

Hi just caught up quickly on the lunch break. I think I will mention it.
I’m on a 2 day course about trauma and abuse, working towards recovery etc. Then you have these rubbish toilets to use in the breaks. It’s not helpful at all Confused

OP posts:
ChristinaBB · 10/05/2019 11:33

Do you have seperate loos in your home? One for men, one for women?

Thought not.

Do you have men you don’t know coming in off the street to use your toilet?

Thought not.

YouJustDoYou · 10/05/2019 11:28

Every been sexually assaulted by a man, @KooMoo? Ever felt uncontrolled feelings of fear when you're near one?

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 10/05/2019 11:26

The toilets at my work are unisex. But they are individual single toilet rooms, which have their own sink and full height doors.

That is completely different to unisex toilets with cubicles.

frankexchangeofviews · 10/05/2019 11:21

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OldCrone · 10/05/2019 10:09

For people like KooMoo who don't understand what the problem with unisex toilets might be, here are some links to a couple of threads which might help you to understand.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3581606-Resource-thread-with-concrete-examples-of-men-being-grim-in-unisex-toilets

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

HorsewithnoPhD · 10/05/2019 10:07

I wouldn't trust some of them to look at my dog through a window..

Big lol.

littlbrowndog · 10/05/2019 10:05

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ILoveMaxiBondi · 10/05/2019 10:01

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SlightAggrandising · 10/05/2019 09:47

@KooMoo not sure how you select your colleagues but I'm not allowed to and I wouldn't trust some of them to look at my dog through a window, let alone share toilet facilities with them.

DpWm · 10/05/2019 09:25

I think, For public loos to be unisex they have to adhere to a certain design such as floor to ceiling doors with it's own enclosed wash basin.

DpWm · 10/05/2019 09:24

Do you have a urinal in your bathroom at home, that stinks of piss from males you have never met?
THOUGHT NOT

(I can't stand the smell of urinals but I prefer men to use them otherwise they get piss on the seats hence - separate facilities thanks!)

GCAcademic · 10/05/2019 09:08

First of all, unisex toilets are perfectly legal but the toilets as described by you are not unisex toilets. Unisex toilets are self-contained rooms with floor to ceiling walls and a lockable door where both the toilet and the washbasin are behind said lockable door for use by just one person at a time and opening directly onto a circulation space like a corridor.

The washbasin does not need to be in the cubicle, it can be in a communal area. The only time a washbasin must be in an enclosed cubicle is when it’s used for more extensive washing, i.e. not just hands, elbows, etc. Paragraph 3 here is the relevant bit:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3004/regulation/21/made

HorsewithnoPhD · 10/05/2019 09:05

I’m out.

Thank you that's very considerate.

GCAcademic · 10/05/2019 09:05

I think you have a point about the gaps, particularly at the top, but I think that may be a legal requirement to prevent people from being locked up in cubicles.

No, the legal requirement is for separate rooms, so fully-enclosed cubicles, no gaps.

Genderfreelass · 10/05/2019 09:02

I've lived and worked on 3 continents and travelled to all bar Antarctica and toilets are single sex except if there is only 1 in which case it's unisex - which is generally just a small cafe or some such.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 10/05/2019 09:01

The man in the OP sounds as confused as the OP. He probably thought he'd walked into the wrong toilet and came up with a random excuse.
Same happened to DH at a conference in Poland. He said he'd thought he'd gone into the men's toilets, then heard women come in and panicked he'd gone in the wrong one, so had to try and sneak out.
When he got out he realised it was a unisex one so he'd panicked for nothing.

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