Rape crisis centre - staff trained to “ask the cis guest to leave”

Sorry what’s “cis?”

I've never felt more depressed and hopeless about this issue. I believe this is a done deal now. It's gone too far and there is no way back. Gradually this will continue to be implemented and will become the new normal. In a few decades no one will even remember what is was like for women to have their own spaces and language. I want to be wrong but I don't think I am.

She sounds amazing and you must be very proud of her. But yes, what a time to be a young woman and know that you have to face this shit fest as you start out in life.

I have so much admiration for young women who are not being suckered in (skin in the game here) and as older women we have a great responsibility to support them.

^hammer home, not hammer how!

Given the examples of the abuse of self-id in the women's services sector, I am gobsmacked that I got deleted for pointing out that this happens on a different thread yesterday. And it's not just happening in Canada or the US but here in the UK. If you ever have the chance to talk to frontline workers in confidence, it will hammer how how important it is that we do not give in on this.

Oh she is a very strong, gender non conforming autistic teenager who is fiercely feminist and takes no shit. But she is already tired of it, and especially as despite serious challenges she does very well at school and knows already that once in the workforce, despite all her hard work, men will get an advantage over her regardless of ability or effort. She is enraged at the women’s groups folding to men so easily, especially those whose job it is to support abused women.

That training breaches the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 ... Schedule 3 sections 26, 27 and 28 are explicit:

it is legal to exclude males who claim to be women even if they prove the possession of a GRC via their Birth Certificate:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/7/crossheading/singlesex-services

Totally sickening Jessica but thank goodness your daughter sees it so clearly and hasn't drunk the kool aid.

Sick to the back teeth of women having to cater to men. Sick of it.

Me too.... and so is my 17 year old daughter. What the fuck do I say when someone is sick of it at 17?????

Many women who seek help from these services will have experienced gaslighting by their abusers.

And been offered programmes that help them understand exactly what gaslighting is and how to recognise it.

They are then subjected to gaslighting from the same service if they are being asked to accept that a male-bodied person is actually a woman.

And it is not the same as being tolerant of someone's religion, sexual orientation or ethnicity.

These rules have been written by people who have never been the victim of sexual abuse, domestic violence, coercive control or gaslighting.

I don't think males - however they identify - have any place in the women's sector (DV, rape crisis, etc) ever, ever, ever. Women working in that sector should never have to consider the needs of males, even if those males have genuine needs. And that's quite aside from the blindingly obvious needs of women's sector service users.

It's not for women to sort out. If abuse services are needed for trans people who are males, or gay men for that matter, then they should be provided. Separately.

Sick to the back teeth of women having to cater to men. Sick of it.

Which Rape crisis centre is this from, do you know? Something needs to be done to let them know that this is NOT OK.

This is just depressing as fuck.

A case by case basis doesn't mean by individual person, the word "case" is wider than that. Welsh Women's Aid have misinterpreted the Equality Act. It is not illegal to provide single sex services/spaces.

Some more from Welsh Women's Aid:

Services will aim to create a safe environment for transgender people to disclose, and to generate open discussion about gender to promote greater understanding and combat discrimination against transgender service users. This is essential in residential services where families live in close proximity. A service user’s transgender status may be unintentionally revealed, for example, through the shared use of facilities such as the bathroom.

Does that mean that women might not be told that they're sharing women's services with someone with a penis, until they see it in a shared bathroom?

WPUK article:

"The silencing of feminists silences survivors"

Dear Sisters,

I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity. (continues)

As someone who has worked with many survivors of violence over the last two decades, I am terrified – both professionally and personally – about the impact of self ID on ensuring safe spaces are available to women who have experienced and are escaping male violence. Even without the legal changes to the GRA, gender inclusive policies are already happening in many areas, these changes are ahead of the law and already upon us. Moreover they do not appear to be slowing down.

Organisations in the VAW sector can use the Equality Act 2010 for the protection of female-only spaces and I absolutely think we should. I’ve worked with so many female survivors of violence who have been left terrified of men, and who relied on female-only support to heal from the trauma they experienced. The sex-based nature of the crimes they’ve experienced necessitates this being women who share their histories, experiences, vulnerabilities and, yes, biologies. So it is right that VAW-service providers have a strong case to make for protections that enable them to employ and provide access to women on the basis of their sex." (continues)

This is why I recently attended a Woman’s Place UK meeting, where I made a plea to the women and men there to understand the growing fear in the VAW sector of speaking up on this issue. Even in a room sympathetic to my concerns, I felt a deep sense of fear as I shared my concerns, which I feel is a strong testament to the threatening environment facing women who dare to even ask questions about self-ID. I am delighted to say there was strong support in the room and a pledge that those who can do so without fear of consequence will speak up on the behalf of VAW services.

The fear I felt that night led me to reflect on the similarities between the silencing of feminists by trans activists and the lived reality of male violence. (see screenshot for table that follows) continues...
womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/

"The writer of this post has subsequently written an Open letter to Women’s Aid and Rape Crisis England calling for them to speak up."
womansplaceuk.org/an-open-letter-to-womens-aid-and-rape-crisis-england/

Women and men are made, not born

Tosh.

People are welcome to their personal religious view points, upto and including fairies at the bottom of their garden.

They are not free to enforce others to enact and participate in their personal faith, nor to discriminate against non believers of their faith. Women who refuse to lie are being punished by denial of services.

This is going to have to go to court regarding discrimination on grounds of belief, and human right to freedom of belief.

Recent thread abut UK homeless service specifically for women:

OP ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASavings wrote:
AIBU "To ask you to write to St Mungos and Women's Aid about this

I understand that a lot of people would rather these discussions stay off the main boards. I also appreciate that publications like the daily mail are easily dismissed as goady and sensationalist. But I would urge everyone to just read this article and decide for yourselves if you think it's acceptable. For those who don't want to click on a daily mail link I'll post the relevant bits here:

" a transgender ex-prisoner and convicted domestic abuser, who made chilling death threats to the mother of his child, has been allowed to come and go from a female-only refuge after he changed his name to Melissa. (...) St Mungo's, which operates 27 sites across London and the South of England, allowed Addis to gain 'almost daily' access to a women-only hostel in East London despite knowing about her criminal past."

"Another charity, Women's Aid, which oversees 300 shelters managed by smaller charities, also said its policy is to allow transgender women to live at the refuges, regardless of whether they have undergone sex-change treatments.(...) In its anonymised report, one shelter manager stated: 'If we have a client who wants to come in that identifies as female, they can come into our refuge or any part of our service.'(...) Another interviewee added: 'We would never ask for evidence of someone's sex or gender because we're open to women on a self-identifying basis.'"

This is not about bigotry or transphobia or any of the other words currently being used to shut this conversation down. If you believe as I do that men who are not legally recognised as transwomen but merely self-identify as such should not have access to these spaces, and that allowing this access is a violation of women's right, please write to St Mungos and Women's Aid and let them know. I've included template letters below for anyone who wants to use them"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3553405-To-ask-you-to-write-to-St-Mungos-and-Womens-Aid-about-this

threads with background:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553104-Not-women-only-shelters

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3555600-Response-to-my-woman-s-aid-letter

I think if a trans woman is truly nice then they wouldn't be volunteering/seeking support in a rape crisis centre tbh. Any transwoman doing this is doing it to make a point imo.

Agree 100% with this.

I find it sickening that even places such as rape crisis centres are being trained to ignore the needs of actual women and place males at the top of the food chain.

I do think tis a problem that there are no trans-specific services, however, the only reason there are womens services are because women fought for them. Surely TRAs could use all their efforts and influences to actually help trans people, rather than trying to colonize womens services so women have to start from scratch..I would be absolutely behind any campaign, and would donate to crowdfunding, if someone wanted to start trans rape crisis centres. I just think no male should ever be in a female one. Fairly sre some mixes ones exist too? Like refuges, some are mixed, yet the ones for females only are targetted. Like Hamspetad Heath..mixed pool, but the males want into the female one. Etc.

I saw something a few years ago from a UK org about treating a woman who didn't want to be housed with a trans male like a racist.

There is something similar in the Welsh Women's Aid transgender policy that I linked to earlier:

If circumstances arise in relation to other service users’ discomfort around sharing services with transgender people, services will work to support and educate them in the same way as they would around equality issues generally, such as ethnicity, religion and sexual orientation.

I’ve delved further - apparently it was Cambridge Women’s Shelter so US, not UK. It was a photo from their “trans competency training” day sent to all staff.

See also ongoing case about impact on women of male transperson admitted to Women's Homeless Shelter inCalifornia US.

May 24th, 2018
"A prominent Fresno charity, homeless women, and the transgender community all say they're experiencing a nightmare come true.

Nine women homeless women signed on to a lawsuit against Naomi's House and its parent company, the Poverello House, saying the last place they could go to feel safe is now dangerous because they're forced to shower with a transgender woman.

The Naomi House bills itself as a gentle haven of healing and a safe haven for single, homeless women, but a new lawsuit says it put a lot of women in harm's way in a very vulnerable spot -- the shower.

It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true.

They say they take allegations of bullying or sexual harassment seriously, but for privacy reasons can't reveal what actions they may have taken.
Shelter forced women to shower with person who identified as a transgender woman and sexually harassed them, lawsuit says" (continues)

The women say they repeatedly complained to staff members, but were told if they didn't respect the person's decision to identify as a woman, and if they refused to take showers at the same time, they'd get kicked out of the shelter.

"This is like their last safe haven to go to," Kapetan said. "If they're not there, they're out on the streets and like one of them told me, the streets are dangerous here in Fresno." (continues)
abc30.com/3514544/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter

Those women working in rape crisis centres going along with this should be ashamed

How do they fight it, though, when the directives are coming from above? The document I linked to earlier for Welsh Women's Aid was funded by the Welsh Government, and is the policy that all their services in Wales are expected to follow. I don't know how you'd be able to go against this if you were someone working in one of those services.

'SWA Aid understands gender to be the array of socially constructed roles, traits,
attitudes, behaviours, values, responsibilities, relative power, status and influence
ascribed to male and female humans on a differential basis (WHO). These are not
biological, but learned. Gender identities condition the way human beings are
perceived, and how they are expected to think and act. Women and men are made, not born. '
This word salad is from Scottish women's aid's position statement on Transgender women.

So they don't believe lesbians are a thing, presumably?
Being a lesbian definitely feels more to me about biology rather than the roles somebody has learnt.

I saw something a few years ago from a UK org about treating a woman who didn't want to be housed with a trans male like a racist. But I can't remember where.