WPUK meeting in London 20 May with Meghan Murphy, Julie Bindel, Selina Todd

I know but I still don’t like it.

I liked it very much - thank you Tourist and thank you Destiny for sharing the link

It's a good article. That reference to women with balls is obviously totally deliberate, and a counterpoint to the reference to the anatomical features men might see/wish to see in lesbian porn.

Good but I hate any reference to ‘women with balls’. It’s a bit like ‘man up’.

JUst saw this on Twitter, an account of the meeting from a guy who attended. I found it heartening that he felt inspired by it. Curious to see what other pp make of it. Unfortunately we do need men in this fight.

excelpope.wordpress.com/2019/05/21/tourist-in-the-war-zone/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

The only reason I can see for setting up these two categories of feminist - one nice/better, the other nasty/beyond the pale - is for the writer to distance themselves from the nasty feminists in the hope of being 'saved' instead of burned at the stake.

She'll be burned at the stake with the rest of us. Has she not realised that anything less than complete acceptance that TWAW if they say they are means that she is a witch T**F?

twitter.com/broderick/status/1131254584960266240

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3592963-Writing-an-account-of-a-WPUK-meeting-now-makes-you-a-hateful-T-F

PlayYouLikeAShark I do gasp when I read about how far the transtrend has captured Scottish institutions. If I wouldn't have to do an awful lot of homework on Scottish law to be of any help, I'd lend a hand. At least you have Joanna Cherry, an a public meeting coming up with great speakers. I wonder where the Scottish GC lawyers are? Scared for their jobs?

I'm so sorry the Scotch women's sector has been well and truly captured. Are there no courageous individuals taking a leaf out of Vancouver Rape Relief's book?

It does seem that the countries - such as Canada and Scotland - which want to differentiate themselves as much as possible from their overbearing southern neighbours, are embracing the transtrend to virtue signal on a national level. Slow handclap for their shining goodness

Re Helen Lewis, who I noticed at Monday's meeting, it's probably better than nothing to have her granting approval to this new wave of actual feminism in the New Statesman. It's been interesting to see her navigate a job in the hub of male-centred leftism, walking a tightrope.

However, I cannot discern the logic of identifying 'those nasty women over there, who won't accept that a male can be a woman under any circumstances', as contrasted with nice proper feminists who will allow some males, under certain circumstances, into the Woman Club. The only reason I can see for setting up these two categories of feminist - one nice/better, the other nasty/beyond the pale - is for the writer to distance themselves from the nasty feminists in the hope of being 'saved' instead of burned at the stake. It doesn't work though, does it? It just leads to a watered-down, toothless liberal type of fem-lite. Women need to be able to see what's happening and to think clearly about it. I doubt Lewis' piece helps with that.

The fundamental point, in this political conflict, is that as soon as you allow any males to belong within the category 'Woman,' the word loses meaning, and you have to invent a new one to describe adult human females as a social grouping. No intellectual worth their salt can swerve that linguistic issue without looking a bit...compromised, and confused about what is actually at stake.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/meet-meghan-murphy-transphobic-feminist-booted-twitter-wont/

Good interview in today's D. Telegraph with Megan Murphy.

But it’s still good to see a write up in the new statesman

In all things but this I have a great deal of respect for Helen Lewis. I think she’s clever and thoughtful and normally intellectually brave. I am baffled by how mealy mouthed she is on trans issues.

I see what you’re saying Lang but I also think that coming out as GC isn’t easy. She knows that and is coming to it in her own way. She’s well known and respected so having her even broadly/mainly on side is a good thing.

Indeed it is. Here's the invite. Infuriatingly framed as "by women, for women" when none of there gov funded orgs have ever bothered their arses to even speak to women to gain any consensus on what women think about the GRA.

Very selective invitation list for that event, Shark.

She seemed to be positioning Scotland as best practice because of the work done by LGBT+ goups there.

Yup, this is what we are facing. The regulatory capture is pretty much complete in the whole women's sector up here. There's a meeting planned in Holyrood in the next few weeks, hosted by Angela Constance with Stonewall, LGBT YS, Scottish Trans, Engender, womens aid, Rape Crisis Scotland etc. etc. intended to persuade MSPs that there's nothing to see here, alls fine, demonstrating how they're all woke and progressive as they ignore women completely by talking over them to support the complete removals of single sex spaces/services.

The SNP's ego in chasing this progressive mantle, to 'get there first' is the danger, and they're throwing everything at it.

PlayYouLikeAShark

As you say, it was noticeable that the Woman's Aid representative referenced Scotland's Women's sector as being 'ahead' of them with regards being informed about accomodating gender identities. She seemed to be positioning Scotland as best practice because of the work done by LGBT+ goups there.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3592260-Karen-Ingala-Smith-in-Parliament-now-on-single-sex-refuges

Where is 'the movement' headed now? Have we actually seen off the GRA reforms for good, or will the govt next try to do what the City of London has just done - throw women under the bus

Everyone needs to look up north to Scotland & throw whatever help/expertise they can muster 'cos we need as much support as we can get. There's some brilliant women working their arises off but a real dearth of legal help/support/expertise to underpin the work that's happening. We've a real battle on our hands & while the tensions ease a little down south as the huge volume of GRA responses bog the legislators down & stall any moves, we are facing a huge push on tran ideology from all corners.

My plea to all who are energised by WPUK meeting - don't forget us up in Scotland and send any/all help if you can spare it, especially that legal/policy expertise. Karen Ingala Smith was just outstanding today at the W&E committee but we don't have someone doing or saying the same things she did today as the main women's groups funded by government are selling women & girls out for their woke cookies.

It might seem that what's going on up here doesn't affect you all elsewhere but if they can push this through up here, it'll give the trans lobby their blueprint for what happens elsewhere so it's important that we give it all we have to challenge this in Scotland so any/all help is welcome.

LangCleg my comments were not aimed at you but were an expression of general frustration

Eh, I like to be challenged. No need to explain!

“I was coming on to flag the Helen Lewis piece. It’s more supportive of GC feminism than she’s been in the past.”

I think Lewis is more concerned with presenting herself as ‘nice’ and ‘reasonable’, and not like those other nasty women who refuse to give into men.

For example, Lewis says: ‘Both positions have radical fringes. The extreme radical feminists believe that no amount of surgery, hormones or pronoun changes means a man should be treated by the law or society as a woman, or vice versa.’

So presumably she is fine with the legal fiction that a subset of males can become females, sharing female only spaces with these men, and pretending they are women. That is her choice. The problem is she tries to frame women who refuse to pretend men are women, who don’t want any subset of males in our spaces as “extreme” and a “radical fringe”.

She even compares women who refuse to pretend males are women to TRA’s who deny biological reality: ’Their mirror on the transgender side deny the existence of biological sex differences at all: to them, there’s no such thing as “male” and “female”.’

She then compares women who don’t believe in transgenderism to anti-Semitism: ‘Just as the pro-Palestine movement has to keep itself free of anti-Semitism, so the gender-critical movement needs a strong line to prevent activists sliding into transphobia.’

She refuses to acknowledge that women who reject transgender ideology due to its sexist and anti-lesbian foundations are no more ‘transphobic’ than women who reject MRA ideology are ‘misandrists’.

It is just a an article to prove to others she is ‘nice’ and ‘reasonable’ as she is willing to play along with some men’s fantasies, that she is not at all like those awful ‘extreme’, ‘radical fringe’ women who will never play along with men’s fantasies. I think the article is self-serving to be honest.

Clitherow - I hope you enjoy your lager, I am on my way to a boring meeting and wish I could bring one along! The Bloom book is worthwhile, though he can be kind of insufferable. But I learned a lot from reading it.

Thanks, pinchpoint.

I am lucky, my employment is unlikely to be an issue. I've engaged a little on FB with regards to gender, a little, particularly sports. So far it seems no one has bitten though, I feel like a bit on a lone voice. Although, I am finding my family members are more receptive recently.

I am keeping my eyes and ears open though!

thread with link to transcript of Selina Todd's speech:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3592866-Professor-Selina-Todds-brilliant-important-inspirational-speech-Feminism-postmodernism-and-women-s-oppression-WPUK-London-20-5-2019

Goosefoot if you can afford the risk (and losing your livelihood is no small risk), you might find that being the one to start speaking sets off a chain reaction, and suddenly you discover you were on the 'right side of history' after all. Courage calls to courage, and all that.

For a few years I was in a state of fear of being ostracised or monstered for voicing dismay about the trans juggernaut. I censored myself ruthlessly, and it was deeply uncomfortable. I took a risk speaking to one trustworthy woman and it snowballed, and before long I could feel the political momentum crashing through those barriers to thought and expression set in place by the PoMo brigade. All of a sudden, the unsayable became sayable, and I haven't shut up since

It's like having a backbone is contagious...my voice used to tremble, and now it doesn't. I get messages of support from the most unlikely quarters, and there is a comforting backdrop of Reality behind my interactions with others on the subject.

I still fear consequences of being a public witch, but I'd probably feel afraid if I wasn't speaking out.

Good luck!

Hi Goosefoot,

i've just opened a cold lager and am about to bury myself in rubbish on the television, but before I go I must say that I have a copy of the Closing of the American Mind on my bookshelf that I have never gotten around to reading. It has taken me a while to even understand what postmodernism is because I'm still seething about modernism! I'm very slow but am starting to catch up - like you, I don't find many people that share my interests.

LangCleg my comments were not aimed at you but were an expression of general frustration. I can blame Thatcherism for a great deal but I think the affinities that it has with postmodernism and queer theory are just that - affinities and not causation. I am suspicious of the attitude of the middle class left towards the working class and that includes some working class people that have been co-opted to the cause. I have had to spend quite a lot of time trying to undo my own Maoist re-education at the hands of the middle-class education system whilst still being grateful to it for the things that I have learned - it means that I am very conflicted!

pinchpoint

I have been thinking about that kind of thing. I've ever tried the website!

Where I am struggling is to find women with a similar viewpoint, they are very difficult to flush out. People are scared to say anything.

I think the point is we don’t want ideology being taught as fact the in schools

Ideology includes a lot though.