R4 Today about the Tavistock report/resignation

Trans medical approaches demanded by Mermaids etc. are similar. Normalise a gay or non confiming child to fit in with the sex stereoptypes they and their family and the doctors think will work for them.

This is why I find the concept of "passing" sinister. It skews the goal of treatment to be a cosmetic outcome in which a successful outcome is producing a modified version of a person who cannot be identified as their birth sex. The sheer inadequacy of that, set against what we're told is sustained and severe mental anguish, is breathtaking.

Reposting the link to todays R4 segment hosted on FPFW’s website

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Tavistock-260219.m4a

This interview and Evan’s resignation as governor over the report is surely a gamechanger?

uk.linkedin.com/in/marcus-evans-928aa5b8

Can anyone find a cached version of the Tavistock and Portman governors page?

While I thought dr Carmichael did come over as a bit slippery I did have sympathy with her point that clinicians need to be able to manage cases on an evidenced based basis without pressure from lobby groups.

The issues that GIDS has had with lobby groups especially Mermaids is well documented and has been referred to for some time.

For whatever reason, GIDS seems to have tried to accomodate differences.

James Kirkup
(extract)
There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (continues)

For more than 10 years GIRES and Mermaids have made explicit their aims to enable access to both puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for 'transgender children' supported by influential adult transpeople and their organisations such as Press For Change

see current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007?pg=4

The comment that worried me most was te one PC made abotu ont eh job training. She said there is no training for this, so effectively they are practicing and expereimenting on children.

This is very much what happened with intersex treatments. Surgeons and parents believed was better to "normalise" children rather than have families live with the shame of ambiguity, but they really had little research about the long term impact of the "normalisation" treatment. Trans medical approaches demanded by Mermaids etc. are similar. Normalise a gay or non confiming child to fit in with the sex stereoptypes they and their family and the doctors think will work for them.

While I thought dr Carmichael did come over as a bit slippery I did have sympathy with her point that clinicians need to be able to manage cases on an evidenced based basis without pressure from lobby groups. The worry I have is that the way things are operating now, is any clinician who doesn’t swallow the genderist narrative whole going to be allowed to/ want to practice in the field?

Social media certainly plays a large part in ROGD. The absolute state of that 'asktransgender' reddit, watching all the older 'transitiones' prey on kids constantly and affirm immediately then tell them how to buy hormones and coaching them on what to say to their GP , its upsetting to see. Grooming in plain sight, and a situation where calling out this grooming earns you abuse and banning!

Ontop of this, the comment sections on trans youtubers videos are upsetting too.

From the post: *Hi, I’m writing to inform the users here about a new initiative from the u.n. to ban sexualized drawings of children for instance “loli/shota” drawings. I can attest to having found it hard to avoid loli, shota and justifications for the consumption of it on social media while looking up relatively innocuous anime shows I was a fan of in my early teens. I avoided it and didn’t really get groomed into communities that make and consume it but I know women that hasn’t been true for. An ex gf of mine ended up in loli communities at like 12 and it hurt her immensely. Not to mention the effect it has on reinforcing pedophiles desires.

The u.n. has opened this measure up to public comment at this link <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CRC/Pages/DraftGuidelinesOPs.aspx" target="_blank">https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CRC/Pages/DraftGuidelinesOPs.aspx
(The specific paragraphs are 61-64.) Gross gamer men have likely already been weighing in on this for a while and it’s really important, im, that it passes. For the safety of young boys and girl, it is important. It would mean a lot if some people from here used the opportunity to publicly comment, and spread the information about this to other interested women especially mothers.*

Regarding what Polly Carmichael says about social media encouraging Children's awareness and talking about these things I think this post a few days ago is extremely relevant:

Help Ban virtual child pornography? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3515649-Help-Ban-virtual-child-pornography

Superb job by Justin Webb on today - exactly what I pay the licence fee for. I hope they keep shining a light on all at work in this area. The public needs to know

Encouraging and what I want to hear. I and probably many others are desperate for some decent news programmes - off to listen now. I gave up listening a while back as they were just gaslighting with quite another issue, or totally off balance or they were fighting rubbish about Brexit again

It would be extremely helpful if there's any way this interview could be transcribed.

It's the old story: "Of course we are concerned about safeguarding of children. Except for this particular group of children where the normal rules of safeguarding don't apply." At that point some very dodgy characters become interested.

They should surely be ignoring any outside pressure and treating the kids the best way they know how? And I am positive they used to use a 'wait and watch' approach, rather than instant affirmation, so we can see which lobby group has got their way with these people who are supposed to apply evidence based science

Polly Carmichael acknowledged the lack of evidence based science in her lecture last year (referred to in article below)
soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

May 2018 James Kirkup Spectator:
'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'
(extract)
"This is an issue addressed by Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean.”

Just in case that’s not clear, let me sum it up: the country’s leading centre for the care of gender-variant children says its caseload has risen more than twentyfold (35 times for girls) in less than a decade. The head of that centre doesn’t know why that’s happened and says the question needs further discussion" (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

I guess they saw what happened to Kenneth Zucker and think a compromised clinic is better than no clinic at all, or a clinic being run by the likes of Mermaids?

I find it quite frightening actually that a place like the Tavistock, that treats children, feel under pressure from ANY activists. They should surely be ignoring any outside pressure and treating the kids the best way they know how? And I am positive they used to use a 'wait and watch' approach, rather than instant affirmation, so we can see which lobby group has got their way with these people who are supposed to apply evidence based science

Superb job by Justin Webb on today - exactly what I pay the licence fee for. I hope they keep shining a light on all at work in this area. The public needs to know

twitter.com/GenderGP/status/1098977537525460995

(from thread above)

She's only suspended with limitations on her practice.

I hope they mention this. Can they still call her a doctor though?

What was her sentence anyway?
OP QuietContraryMary wrote Mon 03-Dec-18
"Criminal record, struck off, £12k fine, £2k fine for her company, £11.3k costs.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-46400184

Not sure it will stop her criminal activity seems to be a relatively mild deterrent . Future convictions could hopefully lead to prison ?"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3441380-Criminal-gender-GP-Helen-Webberley-fined-12k

This is separate to the GMC investigations into both Dr Helen Webberley and her husband.
Dr Helen Webberley is still suspended by GMC

I was booting DC out the door at ten to eight but will listen now thanks

Is it a call in show?
Is it about struck off doctors?
Is it about ethics?
What was her sentence anyway?

Dr Webberley

She's being interviewed by Radio 5 at 11.30 today

Katvon yes, that sounds familiar for the kid I know.

And given the increasingly hostile environment for girls, especially the gender-non-conforming ones, it's hardly surprising that many of those identifying as trans demonstrate such a strong desire to get away from womanhood and all that comes with it without demonstrating the same strong desire to actually become men.

It's of course a perfectly normal and common response to growing up female in a male-dominated world, it's just that it is happening in a world where we've got the "born in the wrong body" narrative complete with medical options being buoyed by a men's rights movement that is dominated by those who couldn't care less about girls.

I am hopeful however that the current trend towards non-binary will at least protect some of these kids from a medical transition. Unlike with children who identify as trans, non-binary seems not to come with the same strong expectation of a medical transition.

Here it is the section as a clip on FPFW

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Tavistock-260219.m4a

a lot of medical ethical discussion

And budgetary ones....luckily this time the "follow the money" argument will be on our side.

(And not for the first time. UK treatment for the elderly, though far from perfect, tries to promote independence and minimise medication and restraint, and as a result has formed the blue print for forward thinking US care providers. Or childbirth, which again in the US is very medicalised and expensive. There was a very funny clip of a US news programme discussing Kate's latest baby, and the fact she left hospital a day later, with the US medical expert confirming that this was actually a good thing.)