Transgender women in women's sport - how it happened.

Am I being optimistic to think that this will resolve itself?

The next Olympics are likely to be a complete shitshow.

And it is an obviously unsustainable situation. It can only last for one Olympics at most before it becomes a free-for-all for second rate men. I’m unclear why the people pushing it can’t see this, but it’s extremely obvious. And then you will have the question of why even have women’s sport.

Of course this could end with women’s sports being abolished but I think the absurdity is accelerating too fast for that. I think the next Olympics will have a bunch of people saying “what the fuck?” and demanding this stops. Maybe the medals will even get retroactively redistributed to female winners.

nobody is going to go through gender reassignment purely to compete in sports! There's a very small number

It’s always “oh it’s only a small number. Poor souls. Let them in. They won’t do any harm.”

“Only a small number” includes Karen White. Harm done.
“Only a small number” extends to all long-term male prisoners who can see that if they play their cards right, they too can be moved in with lots of women.

Then we also have the progression from “5,000 transsexuals are accepted as legally women”. To “transwomen are women and have been for years, you just haven’t noticed” to “we shouldn’t be gatekeeping, it’s cruel and unfair to the 500,000 male bodied people who know they are women”

It’s nonsense. Only a few male bodied people with an unfair advantage being allowed into women’s sport means that those women who have dedicated huge chunks of their young lives training to reach Olympic level might find themselves knocked out of history by that transwoman. Not okay. Not ever.

Anyone see the Guardian merrily conflating "intersex and transgender women" with regards to this issue earlier?

To sum up, there were 20 people present at the meeting, 4 women, 1 transgender woman, and 1 woman suffering from AIS (XY chromosones) and 14 men.

Yep. 6'4" quarterback decides he's a woman. We all just look the other way, right?

Doesn't matter to me why a man tries to enter women's competition - allowing them to will destroy sports for women. Bit by bit, everything that we have is being denied us...

I think people here are forgetting that nobody is going to go through gender reassignment purely to compete in sports!

Define 'gender reassignment'.

How many of the people on this team do you consider female?

Given the existence of state sponsored doping, I have no doubt that state sponsored transing (if that’s a verb) would be used by some states in order to gain competitive advantage.

And it wouldn’t even be cheating! You’re wilfully blind if you think this won’t happen.

I think people here are forgetting that nobody is going to go through gender reassignment purely to compete in sports!

So what?

Firstly, yes of course they will. People regularly subscribe to doping in order to win.

Rachel McKinnon is fully intact and has had no surgery at all. Yet they are legally a woman. Despite being a legal man up until the age of 29 and only training for the sport at which they have won the world championship, for less than two years.

But let's assume that no one does it deliberately, what difference does that make?

It's still cheating. They haven't changed sex.

I tell you what, let's just say any man can compete against women, as long as they take some drugs to lower their testosterone to limit a women can't hope to achieve.

Any men, all men.

"I think people here are forgetting that nobody is going to go through gender reassignment purely to compete in sports! "

How do you know? Laurel Hubbard was a male weightlifter who never made it, then an administrator in the sport, then World Championship female silver medallist after transitioning aged over 35. Or Tiffany Abreu, another washed up male for many years, now a likely female Olympian.

AIR Laurel Hubbard has never even claimed to be a woman.

I think people here are forgetting that nobody is going to go through gender reassignment purely to compete in sports! There's a very small number of male-female trans people who are even capable of competing at even a semi pro level, those hormones have a lot of side affects. There's also a good option they could put in place that transition has to occur before a certain age but I cannot see anybody faking it just to complete.

What proportion of the members of the group who reached that consensus were female?

Former IOC medical commission chairman Arne Ljungqvist who was present at the meeting, said the consensus was driven by social and political changes.

Fucking fuck off. Women in sport need to be banned because politics???

Fucking hell. We barely got the chance, didn't we?

I think it's impossible to overstate the impact of these 2 threads.

It was certainly the very first thing that alerted me. And I read them both, one after the other, in the middle of the night, because I was so incredulous I couldn't sleep.

Exactly Vicky, it's not hard to envisage a time where mediocre boys will entirely replace or at least deter talented girls from participating. And another forum for the participation of women and girls in public life is lost.

It's not just at elite level, a quite remarkable number of trans athletes are taking over women's teams at student level and amateur. It's an especial problem in the USA where some girls are being denied a college education due to trans women stealing their bursaries and scholarships in sports.

And whilst the scholarship issue is not so much of a thing here, the bigger issue for us is that allowing boys to compete with girls will seriously damage the participation of girls in sports.

Such boys will, for example, take girls' places in teams, in events where qualification is by time, etc and will effectively remove girls and young women from those events currently open to them.

It's not just at elite level, a quite remarkable number of trans athletes are taking over women's teams at student level and amateur. It's an especial problem in the USA where some girls are being denied a college education due to trans women stealing their bursaries and scholarships in sports.

I think it's impossible to overstate the impact of these 2 threads.

Part 2
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2558163-Continuation-thread-re-IOC-trans-policy-and-related-trans-issues

It’s a full thread - they all max out at 1000 posts (40 pages).

If the discussion was ongoing there will be a part 2 somewhere.

it's full. 1000 message limit

Interesting that thread from 2016 isn't accepting new messages - why is that?