Times 16/2/1/9 Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children......

Ahh, X-post with Popchyk.

Well, The Tavistock and Portman statement is carefully worded isn't it? You can read it and be left with the impression that people have said things that are untrue but if you look back is it actually saying that any of the reports are untrue? It tells more in what it doesn't say that what it does.

That statement from the Tavistock upthread is confusing.

Are they saying that the David Bell report is unsubstantiated? David Bell works at the Tavistock as a consultant psychiatrist.

Or are they saying that Gilligan's article in The Times is unsubstantiated?

In which case they should release both the Bell report and the Tavi's response to it. Then we'll find out who is lying.

Gilligan is having none of it.

twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1097106895318466560

"Many of the statements in this Tavistock press release are simply not true. The author of the report is a past president of the British Psychoanalytic Society. The case studies are real, and directly described by Tavvi clinicians in interviews annexed to the report."

"It's also absurd of the Tavvi to describe the report as "unsubstantiated." As our article shows, many of the criticisms were substantiated even by the Trust's own medical director. This sort of denial really damages their credibility".

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3510367-Tavistock-article-in-the-DM

We are disappointed this unsubstantiated report authored by individuals with no expertise in this field made its way to the Sunday Times and would urge caution about reproducing its content. It is also important to point out that the report presented hypothetical vignettes rather than actual case studies and does not reflect the practice of the Service.

This paragraph is very defensive. Sounds to me like someone of low authority is blowing a whistle and the trust big-wigs don't like it.

hipsterfun

That gave he a hollow laugh - I've complained a few times regarding DDs treatment - every time I get the response - 'we're sorry you feel this way, but So-and-So no longer works for the trust so we were unable to question them'.

thatdamnwoman

What you say is true. I have may family friends who are old school lesbians (all aged 70+ plus now), they have been very helpful and useful for DD to talk to and listen to.

It says some children “take up a trans identity as a solution” to “multiple problems such as historic child abuse in the family,

Of course it's historical abuse!!! Been saying this for years. Seems so obvious

The Trust has thoroughly investigated the concerns raised in Dr Bell's report. None of the concerns around safety or safeguarding were upheld by our Medical Director. The recommendations made by Dr Sinha mainly focused on standardising and evidencing our very thoughtful and personalised processes in a field where clinicians grapple daily with high levels of complexity, sparse evidence and great variety in the young people coming forward, their developmental stage, feelings, histories and hopes.

The service prides itself in taking a perspective on issues of gender identity which is independent, open-minded and based on the needs of an individual young person. Our clinicians work thoughtfully with young people addressing complex issues and appropriately extending assessments on a case-by-case basis.

We are disappointed this unsubstantiated report authored by individuals with no expertise in this field made its way to the Sunday Times and would urge caution about reproducing its content. It is also important to point out that the report presented hypothetical vignettes rather than actual case studies and does not reflect the practice of the Service.

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/gids-review/

Interestingly GIDS appear to have released a statement saying that the report in incorrect.

That’s a really important point. I will try to make sure that sort of thing is documented professionally for the future.

This has just underlined for me the important role that older lesbians who have the experience and confidence to hold the line can play in encouraging young lesbians to feel comfortable with their bodies and their sexuality. Ten years ago, as a second-waver, I felt patronised and made forcibly redundant by pomo-libfems. Now I know that what I and my friends need to do is offer safe spaces for young lesbians to grow strong.

With respect to organisational policy positions, I anticipate a lot of ‘No current employees were involved with...’ and ‘We have no record of...’.

hipsterfun
That's a really important point. It's critical for parents who know that their children have been groomed / influenced by others. Take details and keep records of every adult intervening, school staff not sharing information with parents, school insurers, details of organisations accessing their child.
Then - if their child is one of those who when they hit their 20s and realise that what they believed when they were 14 is not now what they want, they can sue. Especially those organisations who enabled them to mutilate their bodies and medicate themselves before they were able to fully understand and consent. Being infertile and having no real sex life should command significant damages I would think.

All of this was spoken before the GRA became law. 15 years ago. This crisis has been fomenting for a decade and a half, and it has been facilitated, eyes wide open, by those with the power to dismiss dissent.

That it has evolved to affect children was entirely inevitable.

see thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

When all this starts unravelling, I think we can expect a lot of material to start disappearing from the internet. I’m taking screenshots and making PDFs.

Floral It's not purely budget for CAMHS to refer on to the Tavistock. It's because gender dysphoria is no longer seen as a mental illness, if it's not mental illness, it's not in CAMHS remit. Therefore, if the clinician you see in the first instance (usually a mental health nurse in our trust) believes there to be no mental health concerns or the child/young person is not open about them, even if they are patiently obvious, they will sign you off. Sadly it's all about meeting criteria and willingness to engage. Where CAMHS are hit by budget is they are unable to provide the services that would encourage patients to start engaging in treatment.

Comments have now appeared under the article. The Sunday Times has this and three Martina / sports articles today. Excellent coverage (and the Mail on Sunday is covering the trans sex offenders in women's prisons story.

There are some parents once connected with Mermaids who have been incredibly active and influential TRAs.

May 2018 Spectator, James Kirkup: 'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'
(extract)
"Some people in the gender debate say harsh and critical things about Mermaids. I am not doing so here. My suggestion is that Green, having had her own family experience of transgender issues, has decided to devote herself to charitable work in the hope of offering what she believes as help to others who need it. The same is true of several others who work or volunteer at Mermaids. Read this for a moving account of how devoted some parents are to Mermaids for their help.

Despite its influence, it is worth noting what Mermaids is not. It is not a research body. Its activities are support (for families) and advocacy: based on its contacts with those families, it argues for what it sees are better policies and practices by the NHS and others. It does not carry out or commission clinical or academic research. Its most recent annual report lists among its charitable activities “campaigning and advocacy” and says: “Mermaids has also become more active in lobbying”. (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

embedded link from article:
'The Moment I Knew My Child Was Trans'
(extract)
"I told Susie how since we had accepted our child as a girl, since we had stopped our nightly cycle of rejection and denial, the joy had come back into her life. How she had started talking about books and toys and animals again. How she had started to laugh and smile. How she had grown in confidence. How the stress and weight of the world on her shoulders had lifted. How a simple shift in pronoun had transformed our sad depressed child into one with the happiness of a child who has finally been seen by their parents.

“That’s your answer,” said Susie. “You found out, just as I did, what the scientific consensus supports, whatever you do, as parents, you can’t make a child be a gender they’re not”.

Years have passed since that phone call.

We’ve had our share of challenges, all related to how the world treats children like my daughter. We’ve been on a huge learning curve, and our friends, family and school have learnt alongside us. Support at school was critical. Great leadership from the head teacher and a proactive zero tolerance approach to bullying, including misgendering, meant that the school adapted quickly, accepting our daughter completely. Our child is now loving school, learning, growing and enjoying spending time with her friends – who love and accept her as a girl, and as trans.

Our focus has shifted – trying to help build a society that is ready for our daughter. A world that will love and accept her as we do – a world where she doesn’t face prejudice, discrimination and hate. A world where she can read a newspaper without seeing trans people mocked, feared, treated as lesser.

My daughter is still my daughter. She is happy. Thriving. Her being transgender is the least interesting thing about her. She’s just a girl.

I’d like to say more but the children are awake, my time is up. I’ve been called to judge a Lego-making competition. The weekend awaits.

My wife and I blog here. You can also reach us on Twitter: @DadTrans & @FierceMum"
growinguptransgender.com/2018/02/27/the-moment-i-knew-my-child-was-trans/

'research' articles from blog:
growinguptransgender.com/2019/02/13/offensive-dated-harmful-2019-research-from-gids/

growinguptransgender.com/2018/01/27/gender-constancy-in-trans-children/

growinguptransgender.com/2017/11/27/puberty-blockers-gnrha/

growinguptransgender.com/2017/11/25/diagnostic-importance-of-starting-puberty/

The following words were spoken 15 years and 18 days ago, in the House of Lords during the GRA debates. The speaker was Baroness O'Cathain.

It is an obvious failing that the Bill as drafted contains no requirements of psychiatric evidence. It could be that there are severe psychiatric reasons why such a change should not be made. Yet such evidence could be excluded. The panel may never see it and I do not believe that that is right. Furthermore, these amendments would create a system of assessment which was left open to abuse. By selecting the right medical expert and learning to say the right thing at the right time, transsexuals could quite easily pass the test laid down by the Bill at present.

I read recently that there are websites which teach transsexuals the right things to say when being interviewed by medical professionals. They advise them, basically, on how to cheat; on how to present the classic symptoms of gender dysphoria in order to get the operation they feel they want. I have no doubt that with the growth of cyberspace there will soon be websites advising on the best way to get a gender recognition certificate. We must take steps to limit the scope of that kind of abuse.

A more rigorous regime is all the more necessary because the medical profession itself seems to be in turmoil over the appropriate standards to be applied in these cases. Some medical professionals working in this area feel that some of their colleagues are less than rigorous in assessing people. Indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Chan, has given us a description of one such case. Perhaps some professionals feel that their duty is simply to give the patient what he or she wants. I suggest that that is a dangerous approach to take. Not only is it a dangerous approach, but it is an enormous step to take.

Sadly there is plenty of evidence that people regret having a sex change. Only today my attention was drawn to a television programme broadcast in September of last year on ABC, the Australian broadcasting network. It was called "Boy Interrupted" and was about Alan Finch who, with the support of health professionals, had sex-change surgery at the age of 19. He now says, Anatomically, I was never a woman … Everything was fake about it from top to toe". At age 31 he decided to change back to his biological sex.

All of this was spoken before the GRA became law. 15 years ago. This crisis has been fomenting for a decade and a half, and it has been facilitated, eyes wide open, by those with the power to dismiss dissent.

That it has evolved to affect children was entirely inevitable.

I just saw this on Twitter
twitter.com/FierceMum/status/1095824981903265795.

A good example of the "significant persecution” that GIDS face

Thanks non have pmd you

If all the public funding which goes to trans rights/trans affirming organisations etc went to CAMHS and their services were child centred, many man young people would benefit long term, especially those questioning their gender identity.

In all my dealings with CAMHS, which are probably run in a similar way to GIDS, the clinicians are very in touch with the patients and know what they need, but funding stops them being able to provide the services required, so people get signed off, or signposted for the only treatment they provide, that probably won’t work.

There seems to be a culture in CAMHS of a budgetary motivation to sign trans identifying children off to the Tavistock and the actual MH issues never get addressed by CAMHS at all. I mean, aside from all the tin foil hat big pharma stuff of getting kids on lifetime meds, there's a large element of cooking the books in terms of trying to deal with a massively under resourced system for basic MH issues and shunting some troubled kids off to a different sector to keep numbers down. Which obviously just passes the problem on to the Tavistock who don't seem to have the resources or time to give to it either. But they do have the nice hormone pills.

Jesus, I need to go to bed.

confirmation bias?

If you're hearing the same phrases from so many apparently unconnected young people, what is the point where a clinician says "Hold on a minute, there's something not quite right here..."

THe founder of GIDS seems to have articulated a 'script' which suggests that children can be 'born into the wrong body', have an innate gender identity and that medical, surgical and social transition can be appropriate.