Mixed-sex toilets in schools - children's actual views?

Just asked DD9 if she would like to share the same toilets with the boys at schools. NO was her answer right away, when asked why she said it's weird and that the boys toilets stink.

Toilets in my DCs secondary school have a wide opening that opens directly into main corridor - sinks in middle cubicles both sides one side male one female.

School like them as it means bullying and skiving is hard to do and one staff member at door, into open wing where that years classrooms come off, can see into them as well.

DD1 can't see an issue with them, DS hates them and tries to avoid using especially at busy times which DD1 think it odd.

DD1 hasn't had to use the tampax machines - she has stuff with her - there are on far wall at end of bank of sinks on full view to entire room and corridor. I’m not sure she would ever use them TBH as they are so visible.

I hate this idea, and I speak from a wee bit of experience, though not in the school environment. When I was around 19/20 I was grabbed from behind assault style by a man in a mixed sex toilet at my local gay bar. Thankfully it wasn't anything sexual, he shoved a bottle of poppers up to my nose, but I was terrified and I never used those facilities again.

Can't even begin to imagine the safeguarding issues surrounding this issue.

Recently found out my kid’s 6th form college has unisex loos - would be interesting to know what the kids think about it.

Aside from all privacy reasons, I teach year 4 children and we have the mixed blessing that is two toilets at the end of the classroom. I have always, as a matter of course, designated one for girls and one for boys, and i can't tell you the relief the girls express at the beginning of the year to hear this, when it was a free-for -all in year 3 and they could use either one. Their primary reason is that "boys wee all over the seats." I'm not saying that girls don't sometimes do this, but a simple glance through the doors at the end of the day and the girls' cubicle is generally pristine and the boys'? Well,

Jean thank you for the link, that really resonated and a lot of these women’s experiences and feelings are just as relevant to girls’ use of single sex toilets at school or college or public toilets.

Also this thread is relevant:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

My organisation is introducing gender neutral loos to its large, ageing estate, so retrofitting to existing buildings. In my department we have a single self-contained loo which has been earmarked, leaving single-sex and disabled facilities untouched. In my colleague’s department (different building), it has meant reducing single-sex facilities. She said the male staff are so cross about it, they have started a petition to protest the change.

I canvassed and assembled women's views and experiences on this here. It would be good to see someone gather and collate children's views similarly. Not sure how. jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2018/10/a-gentleman-in-ladies.html

another thread with sone relevant points:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3379144-Feminist-school-governor

I agree about the UTI result for the girls if they are avoiding using the mixed sex toilets. Girls will already be more at risk of getting Uti because of female biology so more likely to be urgently and frequently needing the toilet as a result. Why should they sit on pissed on toilet seats or walk on wet floors when they may already be needing to spend more time in there?

There can be a 3rd space made. Boys, girls separate provision at adequate levels + third space as extra. Arguments against third spaces revolve around demanding personal validation from others by using the same sex provision, which is not any kind of legal right and can’t be insisted on. Anti-third-space arguments transparently do not reflect the wish to genuinely ‘just pee in peace’.

As as aside, I wonder why so many people are teaching their small boys to piss standing up, not sitting down as the default. Is it a chicken and egg situation because they know the usual state of boys toilets and so they don’t want their boys to sit on pissy seats so they teach them to wee standing up?

Just a practical pointer suitable only for reasonably agile girls. (I come from a long line of refugee women who had to make do in some deeply unpleasant circumstances. My mother taught me this stuff when we were visiting what was then the Soviet Union and some of the toilets looked like they'd skipped the intervening steps and we were already at the waste treatment facility.)

A toilet which is too gross to sit on: use as you would one of those floor toilets in, say, India. Perch on the rim and squat. Do not fall in... Do practice at home before attempting it. Or, if the girl is tall enough, hover above the stupid thing.

If you're really cross at management, make sure your shoes are dirty before standing on the rim. (Yes, this whole business makes me livid. It's always women's rights and comfort that are disposable.)

Thanks Arkos

Dothehappydance have used mixed-sex toilets, not at school, but in a very busy shopping centre. It was very spacious, bright and clean (were) constantly being cleaned), cubicles had floor to ceiling walls and doors, sinks were shared in the middle but with big mirrors, so you couldn't see across. As long as it was busy, it felt fine and was great for parents with opposite-sex children. At night time, I didn't like them and used the single-sex toilets that were also available instead.

Ah right... unisex. No problem there then. Mixed sex in one room sounds crazy

I used to work in a school which had micedcsex toilets. They were vile, pee and the liquid soap all over the floor from we boys, and girls tried so hard not to need to go a lot of them wet themselves. Lots of unflushed poi's and toilet roll stuffed down toilets. Plus graffiti for the older (mostly boys) which wasn't appropriate.

Arkos are these toilets self-contained with a sink in the cubicle, for use by one person, opening onto a corridor? Those are called unisex toilets and they are not a concern at all, although there can be complaints about them being unsanitary if the boys pee standing up and don't clean up after themselves.

The mixed-sex toilets that are unlawful have rows of cubicles in a room with shared sinks (some schools have the sinks in the middle and one row of cubicles on each side, often designated to one sex each). Because these facilities can be used by several pupils at the same time, they are against the law if pupils of either sex are allowed to use them.

To answer the question about the teachers, I taught in a school where they had mixed sex toilets, and the staff were encouraged to use them too. All the female staff ended up sharing the single (female only) cubicle in the office, which meant often not being able to pee in a break time. Horrendous.

I doubt I'd be surprised. I have a good relationship and my kids are not generally shy at stating their opinions. I can do an anonymous survey.
They wouldn't lie as there is no chance the arrangements would change... the building has been designed like that...so I'd think they'd say if they were unhappy even if they knew nothing would be done

I tell you what I will ask the pupils next week and do a survey if you like.

You might be surprised. My dd and her friends all hate them, but I doubt that they have fed back their concerns to the school.

Those of you that have experienced mixed sex loos what are they like?

As I have said before at dd's school they have single sex cubicles that open onto the corridor, do other schools just have a 'free for all' set up?

The school is over subscribed so it doesn't seem to put people off, (not that we have that luxury of choice.)

We have them at our school. I genuinely don't think there's any issues. It's open plan onto corridor. Cubicles marked girl or boy. Floor to ceiling doors and walls. No space for bullying/smokers etc.

I think back to my school years and I wouldn't use the toilets as the mean girls would hang about laughing and smoking etc.
Open plan had eliminated that type.

Im off for the week now but I tell you what I will ask the pupils next week and do a survey if you like.

We purposely avoided applying to high schools with mixed toilets- they stank to high heaven despite being new in 2 of the schools we looked round- and I mean STANK- one was open plan, it was vile.
DD refused point blank to even consider the schools purely for the toilet situation.
I don’t blame her.
One word: periods.
Girls have enough going on without subjecting them to added stress and worry about using the bogs when in the first few years of periods.
Fucking stupid idea!

No way would my son use a mixed sex loo! Either of them, in fact. 9 and 12 years old. Especially if they needed a number 2.

Personally and I don't frequent the feminist boards often.

In an ideal world we'd have both boys, girls and unisex (for those uncomfortable using single sex spaces) but we don't live in a perfect world!

*<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=gem-report-2017.unesco.org/en/chapter/gender_recommendations/" target="_blank">UNESCO identifies a lack of single sex toilets in schools as a major barrier to girls' access to education worldwide.

Education plans should therefore make it a priority to provide all schools with single sex toilets.

When this is seen as a priority in other countries around the world, why is the UK going in the opposite direction?*

This so much!