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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist school governor

114 replies

TheFeministGovernor · 28/09/2018 22:05

I wanted to start a thread to get ideas from my fellow feminists, and share some success stories, and some battles still to win.

I am a governor at a primary school. I have a good relationship with the school, and need to tread carefully in this thread, as I absolutely do not want to out the school, or myself. I believe I'm coming from a good, well-intentioned place in writing this as, during the year I have been doing the role, I have already come across several things that have made me anxious from the point of feminism.

I wanted to use this thread to catalogue successes (small though they may be) where I have challenged and improved school policy, places where I have challenged and made no progress, and places where I have not yet managed to challenge.

I also wanted to get ideas from parents, governors, non-parents, non-governors on what else can be improved (within a governor's remit) pertaining to equality and feminism.

Successes

  • Challenged school on all-male curriculum "heroes" for early years. Head promised to revise it to include female role models.
  • Picked up on and removed use of "gender" rather than "sex'' in school policies pertaining to the Equality Act. (NB This was slightly pedantic in terms of actual application, but erosion and distortion of language is important.)

Challenged (not yet successful)

  • Within the next 3 years, the school will be getting a new building, and they have planned unisex toilets throughout all ages. I raised in very plain language with the headteacher (male) that older girls may not want to use communal sinks if they have blood on their hands. He might be avoiding me at social events from now on.
  • Raised the issue that all meeting rooms in the school are named after male authors. This I have been told will not be changed.

Yet to challenge

  • As with many schools, there is a discrepancy between boys' achievement and girls, with boys coming off worse. The strategy is currently to teach - and I quote - "boy-friendly topics" like racing cars and superheroes. I barely know where to start with this one, let alone with the fact that their actual published aim is to help make boys "better" progress than the girls. (I do appreciate they mean progress from a lower starting point - not necessarily to make boys achieve more than the girls, but it seems wrong.)

Of course the root of the problem is OFSTED who don't seem to look at equality in sex as a key focus, so understandably it's not the head's focus either (and arguably, therefore, nor should it be a governor's).

But I thought this might be of interest to some.

OP posts:
PronounIsWitch · 28/09/2018 22:19

I’m placemarking as it is too late to make sensible comments.

However I would say that I’m also a School governor and I am dipping my toe into encouraging School to discuss specific policies re diversity and how School then complies with the Equality Act. I’d love to hear from anyone whose school had adopted the TT approach instead of Allsorts etc.

UpstartCrow · 28/09/2018 22:22

How are unisex toilets even legal? I cant believe its 2018 and you have to do this!

IrenetheQuaint · 28/09/2018 22:25

Marking place.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 28/09/2018 22:46

I raised in very plain language with the headteacher (male) that older girls may not want to use communal sinks if they have blood on their hands. He might be avoiding me at social events from now on.

Please do keep on at him about this. Even if he feels uncomfortable when you talk about blood on fingers and hands. And if he is visibly squirming, simply comment on how he's embarrassed imagining it, so how does he think the girls will feel having to actually have it happen.

Also remind him that girls are 18 times more likely to be sexually harassed and assaulted in mixed-sex facilities.

Charliethefeminist · 28/09/2018 22:53

Sex Ed consultation

Have you responded to this? Your voice would be immensely valuable

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 28/09/2018 22:53

so understandably it's not the head's focus either (and arguably, therefore, nor should it be a governor's)
Well, that bit is easy, the Governors are there to hold the head to account so, it may not be his focus, but it can definitely be yours.

Charliethefeminist · 28/09/2018 22:54

I agree with that comment about talking about periods. Make it harder for him to disagree with you than to agree with you. Make him want to shut you up so much that he will take action.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 28/09/2018 22:54

he's embarrassed imagining it, so how does he think the girls will feel having to actually have it happen
This is a very simple but powerful argument

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 28/09/2018 22:56

Also remind him that girls are 18 times more likely to be sexually harassed and assaulted in mixed-sex facilities
This. Maybe have a source to quote? There’s a resources thread somewhere in Feminism Chat

GulagsMyArse · 28/09/2018 22:56

there is another thread somewhere re school toilets. I think its a legal requirement in schools to have sex segregated.

silentcrow · 28/09/2018 22:57

Have you got a school library and someone who runs it? You can do some great subversion there if you can get them onside, promoting female authors and characters, adjusting the balance of content. Promoting diversity (in terms of sex and race) is very big in the kidlit world right now (as it should be!). It's my speciality so pm me if you want to discuss in more detail.

Ooforfoxsakeridesagain · 28/09/2018 22:59

There was a piece in TES about period shaming last week. Something like 35000 girls miss school because of periods. Might be worth finding the article.

seafret · 28/09/2018 23:11

Just a quick thought... perhaps raise the risk of toxic shock syndrome if girls are reluctant to change their tampons - especially on lighter days, or on bad ones the temptation to put another one in.

8 hours is reachable if going from 8am to 4pm away from home or a private toilet.

Might make him think of ££££££££ for possible liability. And of course if you have warned him in writing and it happens, well...

That is apart from the fact that it sounds illegal.

SirVixofVixHall · 28/09/2018 23:23

My daughters’ school is thinking of mixed sex loos apparently. Really grim for girls, mine wouldn’t use them. Can’t imagine boys feeling very comfortable either. So if this goes ahead the entire school will have to put up with feeling stressed and uncomfortable, bar one or two pupils, and half of the school will be risking harassment and assault, with the added anxiety around periods, just to validate the identity of the tiny numbers of “trans” pupils, who if left alone and not put on puberty blockers will have an 80% chance (or is it higher ?) of deciding that they are comfortable with their sex after all.
I can’t believe it is good for any child to have that much power over a whole school for a start.

Ooforfoxsakeridesagain · 28/09/2018 23:27

If the ‘trans’ issue comes up, do remind the leadership that they will need to put sanitary bins in the boys toilets.

DuelingFanjo · 28/09/2018 23:48

Also marking place. DC in new build School and thankfully a governor has already questioned the gender neutral toilets so now there are gender neutral, Male and female.

AlexaShutUp · 28/09/2018 23:57

Don't really know, but as a governor myself, I was somewhat gutted to see a list of our governors recently, with all of the male governors listed first (including some very new ones) and the female governors listed underneath (including some very dedicated and longstanding ones). I will make my point, but it's so depressing that I have to....

WSPU · 29/09/2018 00:04

Keep up the good work. Small victories are important. I’m a feminist SG too and I agree, you can have a real influence, especially around bathrooms. There’s a new secondary opening in our area and I’ve noticed quite a few parents asking about loos at various meetings. It’s been encouraging.

GoofyIsACow · 29/09/2018 00:20

Where do you stand on sports day... each race is done by year group, girls from yr 1 followed by boys from yr 1 for example.
Do you think that’s sexist?

Uncreative · 29/09/2018 00:51

I’m book marking because I think this could be very interesting.

Please continue to challenge the unisex loos - they are a terrible idea in schools. I would suggest going at it from a facilities management perspective (more expensive to build and equip as all will require full height doors, walls and sanitary bins), potentially messier and more difficult to clean, can lead to more bullying and embarrassment, etc. I was certain that a legal argument could be made against it in schools but have been unable to find it yet.

OlennasWimple · 29/09/2018 01:05

If you are in England, the schools standards require same sex toilet and washing facilities to be provided for children aged 8 and up

thecraftyfox · 29/09/2018 01:34

Fairly new school governor here. SMT are all female but it is a primary school so not really surprising there, in fact most governors are female.

About to start parental consultation for introducing a uniform, school serves a very diverse community in terms of ethnicities, languages and religions in area of high deprivation. Have suggested that instead of seperate boy and girl uniform list they just list all suitable items of clothing and state children can select the items they prefer. Tiny step but breaks down the idea that boys and girls have to have different clothes but still offers choice.

ChattyLion · 29/09/2018 04:42

So glad as a parent to read about you feminist school governors! Flowers

As a parent making a fuss can be very hard because in some schools there is so fucking much to challenge and you feel teachers are already so stressed and exhausted so you have to pick your battles. Heads have a lot to deal with and limited resources and there’s always a reason to minimise these important issues. So thank you very much for setting the right tone with the school hierarchy.

You’ll be hopefully offered things like safeguarding training which should afford an opportunity to really get the other SGs to focus and understand on the value of things like boundaries, single sex provision including for toileting and changing and the specific issues of girls.

I would add that it’s not just about older primary age girls who are starting periods. Though this is definitely very pertinent.

As an adult I have to share women’s toilets at work with male-bodied people who identify as women (in unadapted female-labelled toilets) it’s illegal yes (I have discovered on here), but it’s also very hard to challenge once it’s already happening without becoming seen as bullying between individuals. (‘What are you saying about colleague X? She just wants to pee in peace!’)

It’s humiliating as an adult woman for male bodied people to be able to hear you do what you need to do in the toilets, let alone being an awkward young girl starting out and finding things like the loud noise of dealing with crackly plastic wrapping of tampons and sanitary towels being overheard very embarrassing. Let alone dealing with the guilt tripping and shite about having to accept Male bodies in the toilet next to you.

Also the school by going gender-neutral-only is breaking the law as PP have said but is also removing an important place for the camaraderie and refuge of girls and are undermining the idea that single sex spaces are their right. They are undermining girls wish to use toilets provided for them. Why is that a good thing?

Why does a primary school want to break down the boundaries of girls, which define them, allow single sex spaces to protect them and (I would normally say ‘fraternise’ here Sad is the equivalent ‘sororise’ ?) allow girls to be in each other’s company, and have the girl’s toilets as a place of refuge.

Fine to have girls, boys, disabled, plus gender neutral toilets of course.

Also important to stress that single sex toilets ALREADY inherently ARE gender neutral spaces. Gender presentation can be expressed however you want as a boy in the boys’ or a girl in the girls’.

Taking away single sex provision just makes girls and women less safe and confident to use the facilities at all, as PP have mentioned. That’s not fair.

Point the governors to this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

Also to add that not all girls will come from the right economic circumstances, and/or have the right quality of open relationship and trust with whoever their caregiver at home, that they will feel able to start right away using (what adults will recognise as appropriate) saniitary items for dealing with periods.

Periods starting out (and for years) may be erratic, arrive unexpectedly and the child may have reason to feel they need to be concealed or be unprepared. In which case makeshift items can be used (at best, excess amounts of school toilet paper) and at worst clothes ruined, making disposal take longer and be more difficult to clean up and also more likely to be messy and requiring privacy.

(There should be named female members of staff that are approachable and can be got for help and to give out sanitary supplies in these emergency situations.)

It’s a very privileged and unrealistic vision of prepared, well equipped female children discreetly popping in and out of a gender neutral toilet to change their pad without also needing to check their clothes in a floor to ceiling mirror. Who wants to do that check in front of the boys?

It’s almost as though a lot of this gender neutral toilets vision had been thought up by people who haven’t got any experience of being female and don’t want to consult appropriately with female people about what they need and want, isn’t it?

ChattyLion · 29/09/2018 05:35

Actually do you know what, fuck it. I don’t want to use the term gender neutral any more. Its bullshit. Make them own it that it’s Mixed Sex, Both In Together toilet provision, that they are proposing. Which is not a ‘neutral’ position.

Sorry to go on but I said upthread it’s not just about the older girls starting their period. It’s also relevant to younger girls to have single sex provision.

We know that tiny children can tell the simple differences between male and female bodies unclothed and unclothed and many of them feel self conscious about changing clothes or using the toilets in a mixed sex set up.

Backed up (by NHS Choices info www.nhs.uk/conditions/urinary-tract-infections-utis-in-children/), UTIs are a painful health condition which predominantly affect little girls because the urethra in female people is nearer the bum as a source of urinary tract infection. UTIs increase frequency and urgency of needing to go.

Female kids are not all told how to wipe properly. Even if they have been told, not all are able to comply at young ages unprompted and independently, ie making sure they are not wiping from back-to-front. That is an infection risk but is an easier more instinctive way for them to do it while sitting on the toilet. None of this is commonly a relevant risk or issue for male children.

UTIs are also very painful which NHS Choices doesn’t really go into.

You will also see from NHS Choicss that UTIs are exacerbated and UTIs can be started by withholding toileting.

I think this is a key thing for Governors and Heads to understand. Trying to hold on all day without using the school toilet, or trying to avoid using the school toilet because it’s unpleasant to use, dirty and smelly causes painful UTIs that need antibiotics to shift.

This is actually IMHO a discriminatory issue. I remember myself in reception, Y1, y2, y3 and y4 myself having repeated UTIs. I know a lot of female children who have had the same.

In some primaries there is a lot of fuss about asking permission to go to the toilet, they are suspicious of children who want to go too often etc. Requirements about putting up your hand and asking in front of the whole class which offput some children.

It also seems to be widespread still that primary age kids are often under pressure from school not to spend too long in the toilet or to go repeatedly. My school was like that and being socialised as a girl, I was keen to be compliant and averse to being difficult or other kids knowing that I was needing the loo a lot of the time.

Girls may be embarrassed to ask to go, or be known to be in the toilet for a very long time, or very frequently or simply averse to using that environment if it’s not clean. (Could you ask about how often the single sex toilets are checked and cleaned and paper replaced during a normal school day?)

I can’t imagine what state mixed sex primary age toilets would be in by breaktime let alone the end of the day.

IME Adult men often leave even their own workplace ‘gender neutral’/mixed sex cubicle toilets unclean with piss all over the seat and don’t clean it up, or they leave the seat up at best.. let’s be honest here.

Women’s toilets rarely seem to have that issue because women are not generally trying to piss standing up.

This is often the case already with school single sex toilets where kids have less experience at toileting cleanly or remembering to flush unprompted and they have less internalised expectations to leave the toilets in a fit state for the next person.

So i really think that there are in some schools already toileting issues that only or mainly affect girls, which are exacerbated by school culture even where there is appropriate single sex provision.

Moving to take away single sex toileting is just very wrong. Adding in a new mixed sex/‘gender neutral’ options would be fine. So long as it’s genuinely ‘new’ space and not cutting down on existing toilet provision.

This is outside the experience or understanding or interest level of most men and boys. So thank you for speaking up for girls and women.

adulthumanfemail · 29/09/2018 07:22

What's all the 'blood on hands' stuff? We won't be taken seriously if things are overblown all the time