The Big Questions on now - is feminism in crisis?

Is it just me though; I get a bit edgy now when anyone says 'equality of the sexes?'

I thought I understood equality till I heard the phrase "treating people equally does not mean treating them the same." Then I realised I didn't.

I've heard too many women arguing that they don't believe in feminism because they believe in equality more. Equality of the sexes. But equality sometimes doesn't take into account contexts and meaningful differences, especially when its 'top down treatment.' Which is what many people think of, for example, equal pay or access to certain facilities.

equality

NOUN

	1
mass noun The state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities.
‘an organization aiming to promote racial equality’

Max Blumberg talks a load of shite.

Feminism is for females. Feminism has been colonised by men - because women are never allowed to have something of their own.

Lovely to hear Sheila though, as always.

I'm beginning to think we should go back to Women's Lib

This. Or Women's Rights. I'm happy to be a WRA.

This helped. I don't trust Wikipedia any more.

www.thoughtco.com/womens-liberation-movement-3528926

Clearly we do.

Along side adult human female.

I just had to google exactly what women's liberation was

Maybe we need a T-shirt ( not sure what MN will do to the formatting of this, no preview on app):

feminism
/ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/
noun
1 the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
2 synonyms:
3 the women's movement, the feminist movement, women's liberation, female emancipation, women's rights

You can still catch it on BBC live, by rewinding it a bit

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone

Dear goddess, what a shit show. I despair of the BBC.

I'm beginning to think we should go back to Women's Lib

Me too. With bells on.

Missed this bar the bit about sex work just as i was putting the tv on for my six year old...

Replace the word feminism with women's rights and everything makes much more sense.

If the programme had started from this question, it would be a very different debate (based on what I've read here.)

Sheila Jeffreys!!

Sheila Jeffreys' speeches:
We Need To Talk, 'Inconvenient Women'
June 2018

'The invention of gender dysphoria' - Sheila Jeffreys hosted by We Need To Talk
NOvember 2017

'We Need To Talk About The GRA, York' (also with Linda Bellos)
10 Nov 2017

Sheila Jeffreys 'What Is Gender?'
19 Oct 2017
"3 minutes of radfem gold at the What Is Gender? talk in Mayfair on Wednesday 13 September. The event followed an attack on a 60 year old feminist humanist celebrant by three [male transpeople]"

(refers to assault of Maria Machlaclan at Speaker's Corner)

Yeah, slow hand clap to the young person who asked why women's rights is about women and not men.
And as for Jane Fae "been a feminist pretty much all my life", thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers

littlbrowndog Oh I know, I must be due for some reeducation now

Incredulous that feminists don't sort issues that affect men, what a wally!

Feminists are women.
Their mothers are women.
Therefore feminists should be like their mothers and look after them.

Aw cmon mog.
Women must be inclusive to the whole world and worry about the whole world
You are so exclusive 😂😂😂

On another thread it's being discussed that maybe we should talk about women's rights rather than feminism.

Yes. When people campaign for rights for people with disabilities, people don't say 'but what about the able bodied' do they?

A couple of the blokes in that audience were utterly clueless. Incredulous that feminists don't sort issues that affect men, what a wally! 😂

Yes the young person was ok too

The rest were a waste of bloody airwaves

On another thread it's being discussed that maybe we should talk about women's rights rather than feminism.

I'm beginning to think we should go back to Women's Lib

Sheila great
The rest oh my
There was a younger person in a jacket with short hair at front who had a son who seemed to be sensible.
The rest were just either apologising for being women or telling women who to include

As for Jane.

The second best thing about this episode is that Nicky Campbell wasn't on it.

On another thread it's being discussed that maybe we should talk about women's rights rather than feminism. Maybe then men would get the message that it's not about them. (Although you'd think the word 'feminism' would make it clear enough.)

How disappointing - so many people not getting it.

It would have been interesting to see how Nicky Campbell would have controlled the debate.

do they not sorry

Oh my god, did that bloke actually just ask why feminism doesn't deal with men's issues.

And Dr Finn is off again.