Posie is being interviewed under caution

The ‘crime’ will be whatever loosely defined stuff they think will fit - it’s usually malicious comms but I think she said public order offences?

And technically the crime could be criminal damage for stickering. So #stickerwoman could be framed as a "hate crime" and there were attempts to, AFAIK.

Meghan Murphy recent speech Vancouver Library Canada:
(there are clear parallels with the targeting of MM and PP)

concludes:
"We are now at a place where we are not only allowing men to dictate what a woman is, but to destroy hard-fought-for rights won by feminists, very quickly, without any public debate. We are putting women and girls in danger in order to avoid offending the feelings of a tiny minority of people, without a public debate. We are allowing women to be fired, threatened, harassed, smeared, silenced, intimidated, ostracized, and even beaten in order to accommodate the feelings of men. This is what’s actually happening, and I don’t care if this is shocking for some of you here, because it’s true, and I refuse to accept or repeat lies under threat, especially lies that are clearly hurtful.

We can support people’s rights and dignity, and provide them with the services they need without lying and without throwing women under the bus.

There is no need for women’s rights if women don’t exist, and if the source of their oppression is not their sex, but their feelings about femininity. No matter how a woman feels about gender, she will still experience this world as female.

Those who are speaking out about and asking questions about gender identity are not doing so to be cruel. They are not doing so because they’re hateful. They are doing so because they have real, genuine concerns that deserve to be taken seriously and addressed. And if you’re going to do everything in your power to bully and silence people who have those concerns, to tell women that advocating for their own rights makes them hateful, that your beliefs are the only beliefs that matter, and that those who don’t share your beliefs should be arrested or killed, then what is clear is that you are the fascist, you are the hateful, close-minded, oppressive one.

So, you are all free to disagree with anything I say here. You are free to share your opinions, you are free to believe whatever you like, whether it’s that the earth is flat, or that cats are great pets, but you don’t have the right to impose those beliefs on others under threat of violence or a jail sentence. You don’t have the right to threaten me, silence me, or criminalize me for telling the truth."

www.feministcurrent.com/2019/01/18/meghan-murphy-on-gender-identity-and-womens-rights-at-the-vancouver-public-library/

The concerned public can raise concerns at any point with the Police & Crime Commissioner.
There won't likely be much of a response when a case is ongoing but it might highlight the potential issues and encourage scrutiny.

At what stage can the public, the concerned public, get the relevant Police and Crime Commissioner to act, because this whole charade has gone well beyond a joke, and it amounts to persecution of a totally innocent women who is being harassed by a sector of the community who do not care about anyone or anything which is outside their narrow minded view of the world.

Yes, see pg 25
tudortrust.org.uk/assets/file/TTT_Grants_List_2017-2018.pdf

Is this for Mermaids Charity?

Yes, see pg 25
tudortrust.org.uk/assets/file/TTT_Grants_List_2017-2018.pdf

In the meantime, 54 crimes of domestic abuse and over 30 sexual offences in Wiltshire were not recorded:
www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/publications/wiltshire-police-crime-data-integrity-2017/

Looked for this after reading this thread and hearing on Woman’s Hour that West Midlands police failed to record over 16k violent and sexual crimes:
twitter.com/bbcwomanshour/status/1085553529299914752?s=21

Same point that so many other people have made on this thread and the one about the visit to Glinner but just wonder why some people seem to have no problems getting a response from the police

The ‘crime’ will be whatever loosely defined stuff they think will fit - it’s usually malicious comms but I think she said public order offences?

UK law works on precedent, so if the two sentences that are alleged to be the basis for a 'public order' offence are successfully prosecuted that would be an extraordinary precedent.

I wonder how much of the £94000 grant awarded by tudortrust.org.uk/ for 'a new legal advisor post' is being used to protect one person from criticism?

Is this for Mermaids Charity?

That’s my understanding too r0wan.

The ‘crime’ will be whatever loosely defined stuff they think will fit - it’s usually malicious comms but I think she said public order offences?

All those reported hate crimes will push up the statistics and act as evidence that the Trans community are suffering from hatred and persecution. It will presumably then be used as justification for more funding and more training.

I wonder how much of the £94000 grant awarded by tudortrust.org.uk/ for 'a new legal advisor post' is being used to protect one person from criticism?

My understanding of the basis was that a prosecuted crime had been committed and then the motivations that aggravated that crime were identified and punishable.

I agree Bowl. I certainly don't think the training being given to police is fit for purpose. Which city was boasting about their increase in reported hate crimes from the trans community? However it turned out only one had gone to court. Clearly there is a problem there, either with prosecution of genuine hate crime by the CPS further along the line or with people making vexatious or trivial reports and wasting police time.

If the hate crime legislation is so easily abused, we need to consider if it’s fitnfor purpose.

We can’t have people’s perceptions of offence as justifications for criminal prosecution. Hate crime legislation was supposed to reflect the societal impact of stuff like racist crime - not to be used as a method of prosecuting anyone who disagrees with you, hurts your feelings or raises concerned about your behaviour.

The backlash to this is going to have consequences for legislation designed to protect the genuinely vulnerable.

it's absolutely terrifying if we can't discuss these issues without a knock on the door from the police. We don't have the resources to use the police to investigate the arch crime of 'having an opinion (never mind that it's mostly just stating clear and logical fact, in the case of Posie)

Graham Linehan was describing his experiences of how a couple of other TRAs (Harrop & Hayden?) have endevoured to use police/law to leverage control against him and other people speaking out in a recent interview with Benjamin Boyce:

BBC article about Victoria Derbyshire Show's supportive program about Mermaids and prescription of 'puberty blocking medication last year:
'Transgender children: Buying time by delaying puberty'
By Jim Reed
Reporter, Victoria Derbyshire programme
2 July 2018

(extract)
"Both girls recently spent the weekend at a camp for trans children and their families, run by the Mermaids charity.

It was attended by around 30 children between the ages of six and 19, who spend time socialising or in workshops on bullying, self-esteem or how to report hate crimes.

The charity keeps the location secret - 17 times in the past six months its founder, Suzie Green, has reported abusive online messages to the police. Eight cases in the past year have been investigated as suspected hate crimes.

"We were being called paedophiles, we were being accused of being child abusers," she says. "In fact they even did a mock-up of a van with puppies and sweets on the side saying that Mermaids are trawling infant schools trying to pick up children to make them trans. It is ridiculous."

More than half young trans people say they have been the victim of hate crime in the last year, according to research from the Stonewall charity." (continues)
www.bbc.com/news/uk-44661079

thread about the episode:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294478-Victoria-Derbyshire-show-today-transgender-children-buying-time-by-delaying-puberty?pg=1

From her interview with Victoria Derbyshire between January-July 2018 Susie Green describes how she reported 17 instances that she believed and alleged were hate crimes to the Police.

7 were investigated further by the police as suspected hate crimes... most of these presumably also then dropped with the exception of the current allegations against Posie Parker?

9 were not investigated (so were dismissed)

So the majority of reports made by Susie Green CEO Mermaids Charity of what she alleges are hate crimes to the police have been dismissed?

Beliefs and allegations of 'hate crimes' are not proof that 'hate crimes' being committed.

What training is Mermaids providing to children and young people about how to report hate crimes? Is it providing accurate information?

see issues with Mermaids training for teachers:
(links to the transcripts thanks to a wonderful mumsnet collaboration)
docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit?usp=sharing
docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit?usp=sharing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training?pg=10

When the police rang me for an update, the first question they asked was "have you been talking about transgender issues on your Twitter account"?!

I interpret this as meaning discussing this subject will attract the attention of stalker types. Perhaps there are precedents for this? It's a toxic subject & will draw out behaviour from some activists who will stop at nothing, hence why most of us hide our identities. Asking the question seems to highlight that the fears we have are also understood by the police.

she's going to find herself up against some properly obsessive people who make feminists look like pussycats

Maybe why the press in general is starting to get it.

She did a live stream last night - she’s an honest person with a lot of integrity, I thought. Made a point about not being a ‘nice woman’ - which, I think, is why she keeps being banned from places - not for what she’s saying but for failing to couch it in sufficiently apologetic language.

She also pointed out that as a SAHM without employer to upset, etc, she is willing to say what other women can’t and be the voice of those of us who are gagged by having to keep our jobs. I think she’s both brave and stunning. I possibly have a little crush.

the thing is, if Susie Green is going to go after freedom of speech, she's going to find herself up against some properly obsessive people who make feminists look like pussycats

and also (sadly) coverage of the erosion of free speech will gain far more traction that coverage of the erosion of women's rights

I predict that in the long run this will be a massive own goal. however not without causing Posie anxiety, cost and inconvenience

If the CPS decide to go anywhere with this shit show I will cheerfully donate to t a crowdfunder

it's absolutely terrifying if we can't discuss these issues without a knock on the door from the police. We don't have the resources to use the police to investigate the arch crime of 'having an opinion (never mind that it's mostly just stating clear and logical fact, in the case of Posie)

And they are home free for their actions? Ho hum. Friends in low places indeed. Hopefully they will be exposed but I’m not holding my breath.

Live stream update on Posie's FB page. Green has complained about 2 sentences (!!) in 2 different videos - so 1 sentence in each video. Posie had a prepared statement so the matter was referred to CPS (as presumably, police don't want to make a decision).

Two sentences?

I have just watched SG’s TED talk linked upthread.

Can any linguists comment on people who use verbal fry (As seen in Beatrice and Eugenie in The Windsors, SG and her daughter) and adopt faux accents, as seen in Jackie G who used a varying American accent?

I did one term of language analysis as part of my degree many years ago, memory not clear and theory may have changed, but I think there was material about absorbing, performing and who adopts and adapts to the accents of others rather than the other way around.

When the police rang me for an update, the first question they asked was "have you been talking about transgender issues on your Twitter account"?!

Is this a criminal offence now?