Normalisation of sexual fetishism

This is why it’s essential to differentiate from non-harmful consensual sex play, and abuse

But who determines the line of difference, and how?

You don't see Aspie in Aspie's name?

Or, with your MSc in the DSM, you were unaware that Aspie is a really commonly used contraction of Asperger's?

Jessicca Eaton, Victim Focus article May 2018:

‘Beat the pussy up’ – the way we talk about sex with women

'This blog contains a discussion of violent language to discuss sex, sexual violence and porn. It also contains the titles to real porn films that a lot of people may find disturbing. Please take care of yourself whilst reading this and seek support after reading if you need to.

(extract)

After searching for evidence on each one of the terms I listed above, I found a website discussing what ‘destroy that’ and ‘ruin that’ meant and was surprised to find how open men were when talking about what they meant. I had thought that maybe it was being used semi-consciously by men who were using it in banter, but they were using it literally. One page defined it as ‘having sex with her so rough that you cause injuries, the more physical injuries the rougher it probably was’. One man said he used it with his friends to mean destroying or ruining a ‘nice girl’ by having very aggressive sex with her or by taking her virginity.

It reminded me of a film I watched (and use in my teaching) about mail order brides and the way white, wealthy guys were buying and sexually exploiting women as servile brides from deprived areas. There was this one guy who used military metaphors to discuss meeting and having sex with potential brides. He made my skin crawl.

He is sat in a dark club when he says to the camera:

“Uh, the search and destroy mission for today is to circulate, work the room, identify a target and go for it. If plan A doesn’t work, I retreat, rally the troops and then go out and then try plan B uhh to capture the target.”

He doesn’t even say woman. He doesn’t even talk about humans. He talks about destroying and identifying targets.

This links to the second point I wanted to make – that this language dehumanises and dementalizes women – it reduces them to their ‘pussy’ or their ‘ass’ that the men are going to ‘hurt’ or ‘hit’ or ‘crush’ or ‘beat that up’. They no longer converse about sex in human terms – they talk in metaphors and disconnected, dehumanised language. They refer to women as ‘that’ or they only talk about her body parts. She is there to be used, abused and hurt for their pleasure.

Where is this sexually violent language coming from?
Well, sorry to be the not-the-fun-kind-of-feminist, but its porn and societal misogyny. There is no doubt about where this is coming from. Work by people like Julia Long and Gail Dines has long told us that porn has become more and more violent, with Long (2012) arguing that over 90% of porn now features violence against women including hitting, slapping, kicking, choking, hurting, whipping and deliberately painful and extremely degrading sex acts.

You only have to look at the titles of porn films on Pornhub or X Videos to see the way they describe women in violent and degrading terms to see where this is coming from." (continues)

victimfocus.wordpress.com/2018/05/18/beat-the-pussy-up-the-way-we-talk-about-sex-with-women/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3253264-Very-good-article-by-Jessica-Eaton-about-language-used-to-describe-sex

Raven

I've read the thread. And there is no doubt everyone is actually talking on the same side here.

I suspect it's the word fetish. I do understand that there are words that are technically right and technically wrong. And many people, including me, don't really know which is which.

Fetishising children and babyhood may be a paraphilia, and not a fetish. And that's a sort of technical distinction that many people won't realise is significant.

No one is saying that light spanking is the same as child rape. They are saying that the Overton window is moving to make things more acceptable today, which could result in eventually legitimising paedophilia.

BDSM is often discussed and can be a bit of a touchpaper. Because feminists might well see it as fetishising the power differential between men and women. Where spanking comes on that spectrum, is anyone's guess.

But it isn't really about individuals, it's about the bigger picture.

Thank you R0wantrees.

deep I don’t enjoy bdsm

oh sorry, I did not understand that 'if I and my girlfriend love spanking' that read as the general 'I'. Then I don't understand the issue all, if it is not even personal for you.

‘Doesn’t upsetting’ makes no grammatical sense.

I posted “this thread is upsetting to child rape survivors” and you replied “no it’s not” then told me to fuck off!

No, you wrote:

IMO this thread is very dangerous because it normalises pedophila, and is hurtful and upsetting to CSA survivors.

To which I replied:

No it doesn’t and you should apologise for saying it does.

In case you missed it:

Doesn’t.

Which clearly refers to your accusation we are normalising paedophilia.

If I was denying you are upset I’d have fucking written ‘Isn’t’

I’m copy and pasting the relevant posts here so people can see what was actually said:

Deep: “I believe people enjoying BDSM are, indeed, mentally ill or have some kind of unhealthy personality disorder.”

Deep: “I thought paedophilia is classified as a paraphilia. And, paraphilia often don‘t come alone. So, if you have one paraphilia there is a quite significantly increased chance you have another paraphilia. So, statistically, if you have a kink, it should be more likely you are a paedophile, compared to the general population,”

Deep has said what they think and believe.

This matters.

wearing items of clothing linked to young children (like nappies) is not mainstream and may be harmful.

And that's the normalizing part. Age play, DD/lg, and fetishes that have to do with children's apparel and clothing, are not totally ok harmless fun. They help create associations between such things and sexual gratification. The brain is malleable after all.

Aspie how on earth was I supposed to know you had Aspergers

Raven - because it’s right there in Aspie’s username!

I sincerely hope you find support and peace as you’ve clearly been through fucktons and thankfully survived, but this thread isn’t a great place for you right now, you seem to be in a place that is affecting your reading comprehension skills (as seen in the above quote).

Please start a completely new thread or come back and talk to us another day? Should you wish to share, I suspect your lived experience will be a valuable contribution.

raven I’m a CSA survivor too, and you really have read this thread all arse about elbow.

If this is a topic that is too upsetting for you to read about without misreading posts and becoming offended by people politely pointing out that you have misread, then you should probably take a step back from the discussion.
Take care of yourself

And continue my earlier post...

I think the issue is that some paraphilias are mostly considered unacceptable (paedophilia) whilst others are mostly considersed acceptable (feet). Where to draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable is difficult and subjective.

At the moment the line is being drawn further and further towards the unacceptable end. This means that extreme paraphilias are being normalised such as choking, and "out" paedophiles on social media. As these become normalised the Overton window shifts again.

I don't understand this thread - everyone seems to be arguing from the same side

Anyway...

I'm happy to kink-shame if that means saying that young people shouldn't experience anal sex early on in their sex life, that choking is not a normal sexual activity, and that wearing items of clothing linked to young children (like nappies) is not mainstream and may be harmful.

I rather long for the days when "kinky sex" was blindfolding your partner or trying out the 5 star difficulty rated Position of the Fortnight in More magazine

Aspie how on earth was I supposed to know you had Aspergers???

It’s in my fucking name.

I hate to be the thread police, but I would suggest that the obviously distressed poster leaves and hides this thread, while others continue discussion along the lines of the OP. It's a really interesting and important discussion and it'd be a shame if MNHQ deleted it.