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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Recording of Mermaids training

334 replies

Imherefornow · 18/12/2018 15:40

twitter.com/MichaelConroy68/status/1074723989308801026?s=19

Apologies if this has already been posted. Did a quick search and didn't find anything.

Michael Conroy attended and recorded a mermaids training session. It's hair raising listening.

I believe that someone is working on transcribing this, which will hopefully make it easier to analyse. But wanted to post it to make sure it hadn't been missed.

OP posts:
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littlbrowndog · 18/12/2018 23:18

Well there is that bit in the recording when trainer is asked should I use safeguarding by a teacher
Trainer says no

pombear · 18/12/2018 23:13

Looking forward to someone who's got the time to do a full transcript, but just a little highlight from when I went back to check what I was hearing was really what I heard:

we're all made the same way, the sperm meets egg...bubble, bubble, bubble, we're all female, bubble bubble bubble, and out we go onto this, this spectrum, and some people go on to more towards Joe and some people go on Barbie, yeh, you know, there are plenty of men who are petite, and plenty of women who are a bit broad, and it's just about the human race on that spectrum and where we are divided

a) bubble, bubble, bubble, how the fuck did anyone on this spectrum know which sperm and which egg went together.
b) if you're a 'man', whatever that means in Jan's world, who's a bit 'petite', or a 'woman' who's a bit 'broad', that's it, in Jan's world, you move along the Barbie - GI Joe spectrum?

Sure Jan Xmas Hmm

Petite men...shift yourself along that spectrum. Don't like football? Shift yourself a little further. A-bit-broad women, don't like sparkles? You'll probably be meeting Mr Petite in the middle if you're not careful.

This would all be funny, if it wasn't being pitched for use with children.

HandsOffMyRights · 18/12/2018 23:12

The end of session two has Jan stating:

So toilets, changing rooms, sports, residential. The Equality act is unambiguous its crystal clear. Unisex and gender neutral facilities are absolutely fine, but that’s not a disabled toilet with a sticker on.

But you can’t prevent anyone from using the facilities of the gender with which they identify and are living as. If someone complains, you provide an alternative to the person complaining. THAT IS THE LAW.

If you get a what if? which you will, just replace one protected characteristic with another and ask yourself the question again. So what would happen if you said ‘you can’t use those toilets because you’re Jewish?

Usually if you’ve got a ‘what if?’ just do that and it will quite often just give you the answer and then you can go ‘OK, I can deal with this. It’ll be fine. So that’s for primary schools...

littlbrowndog · 18/12/2018 23:04

Yeps link 👆working

HandsOffMyRights · 18/12/2018 23:02

The link works for me too (i got to the end of session 2 and it automatically moved onto 1). I logged in using that link

I've transcribed lots of it now and a master copy exists. The emperor has been exposed.

I kept the link up for ages earlier by not closing the window on my phone.

Hulo · 18/12/2018 23:00

Boy oh boy. I'd have just eaten the jelly babies

Melamin · 18/12/2018 22:58

Are you sure? The link I posted above still works for me.

littlbrowndog · 18/12/2018 22:53

Yeps it bern pulled

littlbrowndog · 18/12/2018 22:51

I heard it

What they frightened of
If it’s fine then they have no need to pull it
But then I heard it

Melamin · 18/12/2018 22:38

soundcloud.com/user-407799333

Try this.

pombear · 18/12/2018 22:25

Just an aside, but I'm trying to imagine any other training session which starts by attempting to justify the logic by drawing from other species' behaviour.

So kids, you remember when we explained transgender to you using the clownfish example.

So now we're going to cover sex education. Let's start by looking at lion mating behaviour:...

The mating behaviour of lions is a painful process for the female. The penis is barbed and its withdrawal hurts the female who may twist around and attack the dismounting male. The pain is necessary for feline mating as it is the shock to her system that induces ovulation and permits fertilization.

Yay. Hmm

And for anyone thinking 'one thing isn't like the other', why would the clownfish example be any more relevant to the human species?

HandsOffMyRights · 18/12/2018 22:24

I've put a few snippets on the other thread, some of the parts where Jan the trainer is challenged by that pesky GC male...

Qcng · 18/12/2018 22:21

Melamin
Damn I missed this. Is the recording gone?

No, its back again.

No, it isn't back again it has definitely gone.

HerFemaleness · 18/12/2018 22:19

22 minutes in to part 2, she gets very cross at MC for asking questions. Grin

R0wantrees · 18/12/2018 22:16

(Posie just posted saying SG has called the police on her.)

thread by Mrkhtake2
(extract)
"The reason Susie Green can't take legal action is because nothing said about Mermaids, by gender critical people, is untrue. They do support surgery for younger people (link in the next tweet). Susie also argues that making children infertile has no impact on their mental health.(continues)
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1075052199921807360.html

DrEm
"As others talk about the charity #Mermaids and its alleged troubling disregard for safeguarding policies (fracturing lines of communications with parents, keeping secrets etc.) I want to express what I view as troubling connections. @ BigLotteryFund #charitytuesday
The relationships that don’t sit well with me are the ones between Mermaids and MESMAC and Mermaids, MESMAC and the police.

To summarise, Mermaids and MESMAC are two charities which support each other and work together. MESMAC, a sexual health charity, permitted volunteers & workers to have sexual relationships with service users.

One former trustee of MESMAC, Bowen, was convicted of child sexual abuse. One former employee of MESMAC harassed the academic Jessica Eaton over her campaign to stop showing explicit films of child sexual exploitation in schools.

The supposed office décor at MESMAC – alleged penis coat hangers – maybe should have raised concerns rather than just eyebrows? Here it is described in the IPSO ruling.

Despite this disconcerting record Mermaids is proud to work in partnership with MESMAC and release joint statements with the charity.

I am of the opinion that both Mermaids and MESMAC have strong relationships with the police. Mermaids hosted Christmas parties at various forces, trained the officers etc.

It is important, I think, to note that part of Jimmy Savile’s tactics to prevent exposure was to host parties with the police.

Both Mermaids and MESMAC have reported journalists to the IPSO. Some breaches have been upheld but the vast majority of the claims have not. MESMAC vs The Sunday Times: ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-re…
Mermaids vs The Sunday Times: ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-re…
The Mermaids IPSO case was over the Sunday Times Reporting that a Judge had ordered the charity to keep away from a child. It wasn't an order but rather a request.

It is frightening to criticise Mermaids, if one does Mermaids might, instead of producing their safe-guarding policies and assuaging fears, send the police to question you. I worry that this is a silencing tactic and not a productive response to child-safeguarding concerns.
Mumsnet thread on Posie Parker: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3190731-Woman-questioned-under-caution-and-banned-from-leaving-the-country-for-criticising-Mermaids

I always feel uneasy when a group or institution creates a climate of fear and silence, particularly when it comes to child safeguarding.
I can’t help but think that if I’m frightened to criticise a group/institution/individual imagine what a child would feel like if they had a secret to tell.
I think the dates are significant, the MESMAC sex scandal and trustee being jailed for child sex offences, the harassment of an academic over her campaign against child sexual exploitation films - those happened before Mermaids joint statement.

One would think Mermaids were aware. If not could it be argued that as a children's charity they did not carry out due diligence?
I must stress I am not aware of any CSA allegations against Mermaids, it is their relationship with MESMAC, particularly post the various MESMAC scandals, the cultured climate of fear & silence, and their disregard for safeguarding principles which is troubling me."

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1075033888110624770.html

both threads have sourced links and documents included

ButteryParsnips · 18/12/2018 22:13

Great, more urgent callouts for the police on these issues.

swerv · 18/12/2018 22:13

Sorry why the Police?

howlsmovingcastle84 · 18/12/2018 22:08

On what grounds have the police been called??

Melamin · 18/12/2018 22:06

Oh dear. It's not Posie's fault Hmm

OhHolyJesus · 18/12/2018 22:04

Also following awaiting transcript. Thanks for sharing in advance.

(Posie just posted saying SG has called the police on her.)

swerv · 18/12/2018 21:57

Fuck I can't stand the leading question - this is why organisations need to vet their training partners.

She doesn't understand brains and how they work.

I hate the pseudo science, bull shit stereotypical crap.

swerv · 18/12/2018 21:53

I am so so so shocked that the gender spectrum crap was presented to primary school children - that is what the trainer said she did - what a way to groom boys and girls that girls are inconsequential barbie is just objectification of women - as they won't all have critical thinking skills.

Melamin · 18/12/2018 21:50

It is probably better to save the beginning until the end...………...

DandelionsAreNotLions · 18/12/2018 21:48

If your time is limited part 2 is the one to listen to.

Its only 40 minutes long for normal people, I have been listening to first 10-15 minutes and rewinding , open-mouthed to double check whether I heard correctly.

I forgive all my previous managers for complaining about dodgy, low-level amateur training days. This one is really something in its own class. Do listen to it

Melamin · 18/12/2018 21:47

Damn I missed this. Is the recording gone?

No, its back again.

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