Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

MUST edit better.... sigh. I have a ticket, not" at the have" a ticket for the Laws meeting.

Rowantrees; you say I underestimate women, for some reason. I certainly don't.

We all know that the meetings have gone on happening, we have all seen the footage, and I know people who have attended them.

If I am well enough I intend to be at the next one. I'm looking at the have a ticket as I write.

I'm going to have to say something that I've been thinking about since first watching the programme and I'm going to apologise in advance in case it offends anyone as it affects someone who a lot of people see as an ally. I commented at the time about Debbie Hayton's wife, the absolutely haunted look on her face. At the time it made me sad, but the more I've thought about it the more angry it's made me. This woman has had her life torn apart and the mental anguish that she has been put through by this person is so unforgivable. And this person who has done this is given a platform by groups fighting for our rights simply because we agree with some of the things they have to say. I've read the stories in the trans widows thread and they are so heartbreaking. Can you imagine if one of those husbands turned up here saying "but I want to help" ? Imagine the reception he'd be given. We wouldn't give him the time of day and yet we are giving a platform and saying well done that was a good speech or article to someone who has caused just the same damage to a woman. I could tell by some of the posts that people were possibly holding back, perhaps feeling awkward because of who Debbie is. I'm never going to be a great poster because I don't see the point of repeating what others have said and someone has usually made whatever comment I would have made by the time I get round to reading a thread. However on this I just have to say something. It's been playing on my mind too much. It just seems wrong that we talk about the damage being done to families and yet here is an example of someone who has caused such damage but we invite them on stage to defend women. It seems a bit messed up. Sorry for the ramble. I just had to say this.

I'm just back from holiday so watched this tonight. None of the trans people seemed really happy with who they were. The problem with puberty blockers is that it's puberty that turns you in to a sexual being and makes you think about sexual partners.
It's a bit late to only be considering "hang on who is going to be my sexual partner" when you have had your breasts removed and testosterone for a few years. Gay men want a penis, hereto men want a female who wants to be a woman, straight women want a male with a penis and usually kids with the bloke and lesbians usually want a female who is happy being female.
Once the transient you tube stardom wears off you are stuck in a sexual no mans land. Many seem to have relationships with each other.
It was very antipuberty blockers which is great.

TBH., it will make people think twice about attending any such meetings. Seriously where have we got to when that sort of thing is even semi-tolerated?

You underestimate women kay

It was covered at the time. Julie Bindel had video footage of the idiots on the stairs.
Women carried on meeting, more groups were organised.

In fact the LAWS event this week sold out in a couple of days.

It really WAS scary; even though we know that it was a while ago and major injuries had not happened. Anyone would have been on edge.

TBH., it will make people think twice about attending any such meetings. Seriously where have we got to when that sort of thing is even semi-tolerated?

Were there arrests and charges?

Just catching up with this now. I felt for the Mum if the autistic girl who wanted to be a boy. Parents now have such a minefield to tread in all this. I thought she expressed this well with “when my child is 25 will they say....”

It must be so hard to get things right when a child feels this way, I thank God my son doesn’t have the same issues (also autistic).

Nice to see Posie but my goodness what an awful situation to be in during that event. Terrifying to watch let alone be part of an event being protested like this.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=zagria.blogspot.com/2015/02/georgina-somerset-19232013-part-ii-wife.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjQyMPRqPDeAhUQx4UKHUBPCtYQFjAMegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2JskqPD1OUUOlfYsOwa3NZ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=zagria.blogspot.com/2015/02/georgina-somerset-19232013-part-ii-wife.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjQyMPRqPDeAhUQx4UKHUBPCtYQFjAMegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2JskqPD1OUUOlfYsOwa3NZ

Just to get off the subject of Betts, I was reading up about whittle and came across this quite forthright woman. Interesting stuff. It's records like this that clarify how fake all the Stonewall queer theory gender identity stuff is.

Wait what???

Why are we talking about esther on this thread??

I thought we were on the esther thread

How many threads does esther need

Sorry for my confusion

I remember seeing the fear; it had not occurred to me that we could be frightening. Perhaps E really did have a Damascus moment when she saw the film?

Im going no on that one

Is wearing a mask frightening for other people....check

Is yelling frightening for other people....check

Is stopping people from going where they want to go frightening for those people....check

I could go on but i cant be bothered

As much as i would like to believe that E is regretting her actions now i think that she knew what she was doing at the time

I'd wager there is not a feminist on Mumsnet who thinks, for example, that Esther deserved to lose housing due to being trans. I certainly don't.

I don't believe for one moment that this person was evicted for "being trans" more likely evicted for being a total pillock

Perhaps I am a bit trusting but E did not have to out herself as a Masked Raider, did she?

I remember taking part in a student demo in Brighton ( Vietnam etc) and although at the time I possessed no shoes, and was a hippie, I was shocked to see two older people step back with fear in their faces as we rampaged past, intent on stopping the war and making idiots of ourselves.

I remember seeing the fear; it had not occurred to me that we could be frightening. Perhaps E really did have a Damascus moment when she saw the film?

I suspect that if Esther wants paid employment, distancing themselves from the thuggish behaviour they displayed on national tv is probably quite important.

I'd have a look at the relevant thread italian

Its not a completely positive thread

I read that; pretty encouraging, I'd say.

Honestly engage...

ToeToToe

"One of the transactivists blocking the stairwell at Venice's meeting has, it seems, reflected on their actions..."

Thanks for posting that. That truly is quite heart warming. The desire to hinrsrly engage is so important.

Respecting people, even when you do not agree with them, is probably the main way forward for all movenent between opposing groups of people.

I've cross posted with you rowan, I walked away for a bit and didn't refresh the page!

For the record, I thought the programme was thoughtful and intelligent. Very good work, Stella, thank you.

One of the transactivists blocking the stairwell at Venice's meeting has, it seems, reflected on their actions:

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

It's an interesting piece - positive, I think. Although Esther doubles down on TWAW, Esther also, I'm pleased to see, is horrified to see how much they scared women like Heather on that stairwell. Horrified to see how they came across on national television, chanting and bullying women, forcing entry to the building - where apparently they wanted to set off a smoke bomb in the meeting. I'm very pleased they didn't manage to do this.

I'm glad Esther has the honesty to reflect on this, and realise just how awful their behaviour was - and I wonder if the other one there who shouted "my pronouns are they, you fucking cunt" at posie has similar misgivings having seen how their behaviour looks on tv.

I'd wager there is not a feminist on Mumsnet who thinks, for example, that Esther deserved to lose housing due to being trans. I certainly don't.

I also don't think anyone would deny Esther's right to be a transwoman, and to present themselves any way they like.

The sticking point is, as always, the TWAW thing. Transwomen are transwomen - and women have the right to categorise themselves in their own category - biological women. The ones born with a female reproductive system, and socialised as a female. We have the right to talk about our own bodies using our own language, and we have the right to our own private spaces.

The protester, Esther, is starting to grow up? Good to read the apology at least.

Ah, I found this
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3433581-Sunday-Times-Articles-Today

This really does remind me of Kids Company.

Me too. But this is much, much worse and much, much bigger.

Any chance of a share token for this:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr
Thank you

current thread with comment from one of the 'protesters' at the 'We Need To Talk About Sex' event at the Jam Jar in Bristol.

They were interviewed for this documentary:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3433667-I-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-I-regret-what-I-did-this-is-why

As the brain is still developing up to about age 25 and children are still legally children under 18- how can an 11 year old know anything for sure!

Certainly not enough to warrant effectively stopping some of their brain and body development at age 11.