"More likely to be homeless, be abused..."

From the same thread, very succinct. This should be on a poster outside the House of Commons..,

“Beware the group that explicitly tells you that they are the most oppressed.“

twitter.com/caulorlime/status/1048534661876473856?s=21

And good quote.

Thankfully not my friend.

Wholly on-point comment from @lecanardnoir123

Be careful not to assume that the group of people who appear to have suffered the greatest injustices are those that actually have. The narcissistic rage of the entitled will always be louder than the cries of the oppressed.

twitter.com/lecanardnoir/status/1048525149316829187

So its important to put those peoples rights equal to or even above cis women because intersectionality is real."

aaargh that’s not what intersectionality is ffs. It’s not a ranking system for who matters most.

Intersectionality would be more like: trans homeless people experience particular oppressions and disadvantages because of the combination of being trans and homeless. These aren’t things that other trans non-homeless people will experience the same way, or that other homeless non-trans people will experience the same way. So if you’re only looking in terms of “what do trans people suffer?” or “what do homeless people suffer?”, you’d miss things that happen as a result of these two factors intersecting.

It’s not “they suffer more so their rights matter more, shut up women.” Your FB friend is an idiot.

There seems to be a need to constantly out women the women at every turn. I imagine this is just another outwomaning moan.

Thanks arran (I've name changed) yes I walked away as did three other women, ignoring the hearts.

And yes fact checking is absolutely what is needed.

On an individual basis, the best way to deal with narcissists is to walk away from them.

On a societal level, that's very different. And while mainstream media are floundering around trying to come up with an acceptable policy, they are colluding in spreading that narcissistic narrative and making it the only one that should be considered.

We need fact checking organisations that go beyond fact checking and call out manipulation like this. Sort of a cross between Full Fact and the Glasgow Media Group.

www.glasgowmediagroup.org

I've been literally hopping mad with the whole thing I read, while trying to just get on with family life

Add me to the list of women who have experienced exactly this!

Apologies, I went a bit off topic. I was trying to say what Materialist and others said much better. “Intersectional” is misleading as they are putting “transwomen” in the wrong ontological category of “women”.

The main problem with any such claims for me is the correlation between being trans, other mental health problems, and according to the Paul Henson article (below) a high level of childhood abuse.

There are reasons these things occur, but these things are not the fault of women. And unfortunately, I think we have to assume that there is a higher risk that troubled male bodied people are probably a higher risk to women than the average man, however they identify.

That’s the elephant in the room here. We’re being sold the lie that this is not a mental health issue and that these people are “born in the wrong body” and are women, just like all “other” women.

But they aren’t. They are male and there’s a high proportion who have concomitant personality disorders (according to research). The fact they are pushing so hard to get into women’s spaces is an enormous red flag when you look at it with bald reality.

medium.com/@paulhewson_11172/responses-stating-they-had-experienced-childhood-abuse-49-541e2f50cd5a

I’m all for fighting for safe spaces etc but why is mumsnet so obsessed with ‘they don’t have it hard! The suicide rates aren’t that high’ they are real people behind the title you know. One suicide or murder because of your orientation or similar is too many.

I don't think anyone is saying any suicide or murder is ok. They are saying that if you claim that these rates are higher for transwomen than for other groups, and you use that claim to justify taking safe spaces and resources away from vulnerable women, then you have to be sure both that these claims are true and that doing this will help those statistics. Because if both of those aren't the case then you have no justification for taking anything away from vulnerable women.

acsex hierarchy of men on top of women, as we have now, they’re suggesting as a solution a gender identity based hierarchy of : 1) men, 2) transwomen 3) transmen, 4) women.

Sheila Jeffreys says that we've given up having a hierarchy in some cases and now have a sex caste system.

In this book I have chosen to use the term ‘sex caste’ to describe the political system in which women are subordinated to men on the basis of their biology. Feminists have disagreed over whether women’s condition of subordination is best referred to in terms of ‘caste’ or ‘class’. Those who use the concept of women as a ‘sex class’, such as Kate Millett, are referencing their experience in leftwing politics and see the idea of ‘class’ as offering the possibility of revolution (Millett, 1972). Millett did, however, use the term caste as well, speaking of women’s ‘sexual caste system’ (Millett, 1972: 275). If women are in a subordinate class in relation to men, as the working class is in relation to the bourgeoisie, then women’s revolution can be conceptualised as overthrowing the power of men in such a way that sex class ceases to have meaning and will disappear as a meaningful category (Wittig, 1992). It also implies, as in left theory, that women’s revolution requires the recognition by women of their ‘sex’ class status as the basis for political action. Nonetheless, the term sex class can be problematic because it implies that women could move out of their ‘class’, in the same way that individual working class people could change their class position by becoming embourgeoised. The term ‘caste’, on the other hand, is useful for this book because it encapsulates the way in which women are placed into a subordinate caste status for their lifetime (see Burris, 1973). Women may change their economic class status with upward mobility, but they remain women unless they elect to transgender and claim membership in the superior sex caste. Both of these terms can be useful in articulating the condition of women, but the term ‘caste’ offers a particular advantage in relation to studying transgenderism. The very existence of transgenderism on the part of women demonstrates the stickiness of caste subordination. The marks of caste remain attached to females unless they claim that they are really ‘men’, and only a very significant social transformation will enable change in this respect.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/exclusive-preview-gender-hurts-by-sheila-jeffreys/

I’m all for fighting for safe spaces etc but why is mumsnet so obsessed with ‘they don’t have it hard! The suicide rates aren’t that high’ they are real people behind the title you know. One suicide or murder because of your orientation or similar is too many.

I don't recall where, and AS is letting me down, but we've discussed the 'homeless' claim. At root, it seems the people were backed into admitting that they were making the 'homeless' claims on the back of the number of people who report being thrown out of the house/leaving their home after coming out as trans to their families.

There was a thread I read the other day which had some info. Trans women in the U.K. are more likely to be the murderer than be murderered. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3064926-Number-of-trans-people-who-are-murderers-is-greater-than-the-number-of-trans-people-who-are-murder-victims-in-UK-Title-amended-by-MNHQ

The murdered one is debunked by Karen Ingala Smith here
kareningalasmith.com