Any Irish feeling a bit isolated...

I find drag acts so offensive on such a visceral level And 'Panti' FFS. Hammering home the point that it's one set of genitals laughing at the other. He's parodying women - or an offensive stereotype of women.

God, yes. Good to have found you all. I'm Irish, but don't currently live in Ireland though considering heading back at some point in the next few years and following the situation at home with increasing horror.

That's what I loved about Posie's rant - she puts everything into perspective from a GC woman's POV. I'd have been so enraged at the inclusive nonsense those young women were spouting that I'd have been incoherent and spluttering.

YY @R0wan

I’ve yet to see an unreasonable transman, excepting that nonsensical tweet about breast cancer mastectomies taking priority over top surgery.

Compared to TW and non-binary, TM seem to be very live-and-let-live and just want to get on with living their lives without demanding concessions from everyone else.

I’ve yet to see a TM policing the language on this legislation.

I know exactly what you mean - it's shit when you know in the marrow of your bones that you're being fucked over and your rights are being ignored, but some smart arse who's more articulate decides he/she can get points for being virtuous at your expense.

To be honest, I don’t feel up to the debate intellectually. I’m a very average person, I’m shit at debating- especially those who speak with confidence and aggression.

You guys are all so articulate and I admire some of the fearlessness we see on MN and from FPFW etc. I just find this whole debate so wrong, so depressing in its disregard for the safeguarding of women and girls, and I get so frustrated that I can’t help in any meaningful way.

Tens of thousands of transgender men and non-binary people in Ireland? Could there possibly be? If there were 100 transgender men I'd be surprised, but I'm willing to learn otherwise.

There are a couple of significant threads which started just after the referendum result when some TRA groups indicated that they would lobby to not have 'women' in the policies and legislation which would follow the result:

May 2018 OP SunsetBeetch wrote,
"You couldn't make it up at this point, could you?

""Trans Voices for Repeal would like the..Together for Yes campaign..to formally acknowledge the pain their actions have caused trans people in Ireland, the negative effect their campaign has had on the mental health of trans people and the unnecessary nature of this exclusion."

twitter.com/doormatt134/status/1000620731468845057?s=19

medium.com/@transvoicesforrepeal/trans-voices-for-repeal-call-on-the-together-for-yes-campaign-to-formally-apologise-to-trans-people-84931f0fa85d "

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260503-Trans-Voices-For-Appeal-Complain-About-Together-For-Yes-Campaign

June 2018 OP AngeloMysterioso wrote:
"Well, it’s happened... the trans activists have waded into the 8th amendment issue in Ireland
And are apparently pushing for the language in the repeal legislation to be “gender neutral”.

Quote from the article-

“Despite what some may believe, men can become pregnant too. There are tens of thousands of transgender men and non-binary people in Ireland who can conceive, and when speaking about reproductive healthcare, we must always be mindful of that.

“It’s imperative that newly written legislation uses inclusive language. By including this, trans men and non binary people will not hit legal barriers should they need to receive an abortion. By using the term pregnant people in new legislation, as well as protecting women, we are also protecting and respecting all gender identities should a crisis pregnancy occur.”

So. That’s nice. Thousands upon thousands of women have suffered, many have died, because of bullshit like the 8th amendment. And after fighting so hard for so fucking long and finally winning the right to bodily autonomy and reproductive rights, if the TAs get their way, we get to be referred to as pregnant people

I’m a bit of a TERF at the best of times but this is beyond fucking insulting. Savita Halappanavar wasn’t a pregnant person. Michelle Harte wasn’t a pregnant person. Sheila Hodges wasn’t a pregnant person.

If the TDs capitulate and let this happen I will be really pissed off."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3265165-Well-it-s-happened-the-trans-activists-have-waded-into-the-8th-amendment-issue-in-Ireland

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/up-to-half-of-trans-inmates-may-be-sex-offenders-26rz2crhs

You should send him this. Vulnerable my arse. Why are men so keen to get men into women's spaces?

Think this should work

mobile.twitter.com/beanuimaolagain/status/1042206293598068736

Sorry, I’m shit at both Twitter and linking.

That’s not my real name but it is my real face.

To go back to Aidan, he’s got very personal and insulting very quickly.

I've looked at his twitter account but can't see that exchange. Could you link it?

To go back to Aidan, he’s got very personal and insulting very quickly. He keeps telling me I’m angry, when I’m actually just thinking he’s an idiot.

Apparently I talk nonsense because I think violent TW shouldn’t be in female prisons.

I’m not particularly vocal on this issue and I’m pretty “liberal” compared to the likes of Posie and Glinner, but Jesus!

Pantibar is full of really foul misogynistic art. He's an institution all right, doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Look at this appallingly sexist article about the Irish Feminist Network.
trinitynews.ie/features/2013/10/the-women-are-coming-a-profile-of-the-irish-feminist-network/

"She's not...some kind of hysterical militant man-hating opportunist"...he helpfully points out about his friend Colette, before reassuring us that feminism is for men too. Why are these young women so timid?? If I were Colette I would kick Tommy her "friend" to the fucking kerb! The MRAs succeeded in devaluing feminism so much that when there was a bit of a resurgence in Ireland about 6 years ago re the 8th amendment, they have to reassure the men that they aren't the horrid manhating kind and fucking apologise for the whole thing.

They're getting slaughtered on their twitter thread.

I'm Irish, GC and can't come out because of my job.

Amnesty Ireland tweeting about 'pregnant people' today. I am sickened. Can women not have anything? This should be a day of celebration but I can't stomach the handmaidens and wokebros crowing on Twitter. Fuckers.

Btw why the criticism of Panti Bliss?

I find drag acts so offensive on such a visceral level :( And 'Panti' FFS. Hammering home the point that it's one set of genitals laughing at the other. He's parodying women - or an offensive stereotype of women.

As for feminism in Ireland, how can any bunch of women who claim to be feminist come out with shit like this on the front page of their website? This Mother’s Day, as you were probably celebrating the wonderful female identified person(s) who raised you and/or brought you into the world... Like the 'menstruating persons' in another thread, they've tied themselves into such knots to avoid that awful word 'women' that they're only fit to be laughed at and mocked.

I guess if people aren’t aware of the counter-arguments, they just link gender critical people with homophobia, pro-lifers etc and so ripe for abuse. Especially as they have there own easy to spit out name - terfs. Because of the proximity of the two referendums, gay rights and feminism are I think quite linked in Ireland. (Btw why the criticism of Panti Bliss? I quite like Panti Bliss, and he is a bit of an institution at this stage, so criticizing him does kind of play into the hands of those trying to portray terfs as socially conservative “phobes”)

Sadly I had him pegged as a mansplaining misogynist long ago. Some of the people he retweets, oh lordy...

Irish Twitter is CHOCK FULL of these men. Braying about "the terfs" and putting uppity women in their place. I suppose it's a new, valid way to get the boot in, as anti-abortion views became less acceptable in public.

Anyone follow Aidan Comerford?

Just got into a Twitter-spat with him here.

Pity, I really respected him during the 8th Debate.

When I was a child the church had an iron grip on the country with the majority of the population Catholic. We listened to men in dresses who told us material reality changed when they said certain words. Whether we believed or not we pretended to and anyone who didn't was considered a crank or worse....look where we are now!

I give no fucks now, I just think they're of very low intelligence. It goes beyond liberalism and into stupidity.

I know. Even in the past month or two when it's been revealed that flashing, wanking, rapey fetishists have been allowed access to vulnerable women under the trans umbrella, and invited to advise on policies affecting vulnerable women and children, there's no backdown or humility. I saw a young Irish woman on social media describe Karen White as a "female rapist" ffs.

I roll my eyes whenever I see the phrase "lessons will be learned" as they never are. When the next disaster looms nobody seems to be able to see that the differences are superficial.

Pachy...exactly.Women of my mother's generation couldn't comprehend that a 'man of God' could do such vile things and it never occurred to most people that men with bad intentions might see the priesthood as some sort of invisibility cloak to get them into a perfect target population. With hindsight we can all see that and yet when another cohort are doing EXACTLY the same thing there is a collective unwillingness to learn from the past. It's staggering how strong the denial is.

You've corrected us all and explained that the poster was wrong to think that an insulting phrase is insulting. So can we get back to the conversation we were having beforehand?

ludog yes, and think of the safeguarding and child protection guidelines that arose from the appalling abuses of the Catholic church. Just chucked out the window now when the magic trans holy water is sprinkled about.