Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live

I can’t watch it on iPlayer, apparently the content isn’t available. I hope someone has managed to get a copy of it, because I strongly suspect that when/if it becomes available again, the finger flipping/swearing will have been edited.

If this is edited out and the other segments when Tara Hudson is speaking remain without additional comment, the BBC bias will be made explicit.
relevent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3296433-BBC-Bias-Collecting-Examples-here

I think this was the original thread about Tara on here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2497536-to-think-if-you-have-a-penis-you-do-not-belong-in-a-womans-prison?messages=100&pg=1

This was the point that I realised the media (esp. the BBC and Guardian) was going to lie and misrepresent violent thugs and perverts as angels to suit an agenda.

Tara Hudson and her 7" penis was the best poster girl they could come up with.

I shall also be complaining. It falls well below the standards we should expect from the BBC.

Why no apology I wonder...

I made this gif from what went out on the live broadcast:

makeagif.com/i/sXVKxA

I can’t watch it on iPlayer, apparently the content isn’t available. I hope someone has managed to get a copy of it, because I strongly suspect that when/if it becomes available again, the finger flipping/swearing will have been edited.

Dr Nic was so measured, calm and classy in that interview.

RomyandJulio I’d also like to know what the difference is between “really” identifying and “just pretending”.

Yes, however I found it a good "in" when talking to my MP and others. You see the penny very slowly drop that as they or you say it they realise this completely unrealistic.

Dr Nic gave us all a lesson there.....be calm, polite and state your points.
It speaks volumes.

They seem to have taken it off iPlayer. For sanitising?

I've been musing over what the BBC / social media coverage might have been if Dr Nicola Williams (or another guest) was seen giving the middle finger and mouthing expletives following something that Tara Hudson had said....

Good point. That part of the clip with the swearing is much more of a story and just downright better telly. Very odd it wasn't used in newsclips.

So Tara Hudson, a violent male who has been imprisoned for smashing a man’s teeth out of his head, swore on national television because they didn’t get their way in a debate about a rapist in a female prison?

Well let’s just hope that means Tara won’t get on television for quite some time. I will be complaining to the BBC about the middle finger gesture on television whilst my 4 year old was watching daytime TV.

I've been musing over what the BBC / social media coverage might have been if Dr Nicola Williams (or another guest) was seen giving the middle finger and mouthing expletives following something that Tara Hudson had said....

makeagif.com/i/sXVKxA

Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender.

I would genuinely love to know how that’s meant to work. Really. I’d also like to know what the difference is between “really” identifying and “just pretending”.

The only place the TRA have to go is to insist there is a tangible difference between Karen White and Tara Hudson.

cf current case in California at a homeless shelter for women, required by federal law to admit self-id women:

'Shelter forced women to shower with person who identified as a transgender woman and sexually harassed them, lawsuit says'
(extract)
"FRESNO, Calif. (KFSN) -- A prominent Fresno charity, homeless women, and the transgender community all say they're experiencing a nightmare come true.

Nine women homeless women signed on to a lawsuit against Naomi's House and its parent company, the Poverello House, saying the last place they could go to feel safe is now dangerous because they're forced to shower with a transgender woman.

The Naomi House bills itself as a gentle haven of healing and a safe haven for single, homeless women, but a new lawsuit says it put a lot of women in harm's way in a very vulnerable spot -- the shower.

It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true." (conntinues)

concludes:
"Leaders in the Valley's transgender community tell us this is a nightmare for them too because if someone who calls herself a transgender woman is sexually harassing people, she put an already marginalized community in a bad light.

Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender.

One possible solution is already in place: Poverello House administrators say they added shower curtains about four months ago."
thread with link to article cited:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter

Tara Hudson is a violent man. Who has displayed many of the traits of violent male behaviour. I think it's really important to say this.

Point well taken

I have a 4 second video clip of Hudson flipping the finger and mouthing "fuck you", live on BBC this morning, but I don't think I can upload it to Mumsnet.

Sorry

There were some statistics on Twitter this weekend breaking down the recorded sexual assaults in prisons (2012/2013 I think)

Men are sexually assaulted by males in prison at a massively higher incidence than women in female estate, unsurprisingly given the national rates.

What was also pointed out that White's crimes may now appear as part of the 2017 data for women sexually assaulted by women. they would represent a significant proportion (and therefore likely increase)

That Tara Hudson was sexually assaulted in men's estate is appalling.
So too all the other sexual assaults and rapes of male prisoners.

The fact is, no one wants to be with violent men

Tara Hudson is a violent man. Who has displayed many of the traits of violent male behaviour. I think it's really important to say this.

Tara "fuck you" Hudson

That's going to stick as a nickname.

"That's what was being suggested when Tara's mask slipped and the expletives started."

Yes - but my impression was that Tara thought that meant all transwomen should be in the male estates. It seemed to me that Tara agreed with the idea of another third space.

But I might be wrong and conditioned to always see the best in people (that pesky female socialisation...)

I accidentally caught both the finger and the very start of the "fuck you" forming on her lips!

The only place the TRA have to go is to insist there is a tangible difference between Karen White and Tara Hudson. Which is why Tara was initially doing the horrified, I'm a victim too thing.

The reason Tara lost their temper was because this tack did not elicit a tangled response of 'We need to make a distinction between the fakers and the truetrans', but instead got the very sensible response that a third space seems sensible - which even headtilt Victoria seemed to think was a good idea.

It was at that point that Tara dropped the conciliatory stuff and whipped her finger up and shouted abuse that the sound person shut off. Which really should tell every rational person all they need to know about how genuinely 'reasonable' Tara and their ilk are.

Found the Louis Theroux clip. I was wrong about the type of sentence they had only been serving 3 months on that occasion. I remembered the boyfriend correctly though.

The fact is, no one wants to be with violent men.

The fact is that TH is one of these - that's why they went to prison.