I wholly reject the term cis woman

I was going to make new thread titled "Xenonyms and Autonyms", but I'll post my draft OP here:

"Cis" is a xenonym used by the trans community to describe us as an outgroup, with themselves as the ingroup. This kind of outgroup-ingroup labelling is used routinely throughout the world to describe "our people" versus "those other people who are not ours" and isn't inherently a problem: we call French people "French" but they call themselves "français" and this isn't a problem but calling them "frogs" would be rude. The problem comes when trans people tell me and the world at large to use their xenonym "cis" to describe myself, because this is coercive and an attempt at gaining dominance over me and the world at large. Matisoff observes rightly that "Human nature being what it is, exonyms are liable to be pejorative rather than complimentary, especially where there is a real or fancied difference in cultural level between the ingroup and the outgroup." The "die cis scum" and "cisbian" rhetoric demonstrates that "cis" is a pejorative xenonym and not a neutral descriptor as often claimed. Forcing a group to accept a perjorative xenonym degrades and dehumanises the members of that group, in addition to being a shoe of dominance as outlined above.

The above reasoning can also be applied to "terf". Additionally, "terf" is an untruthful propaganda term: we are male exclusionary and when we fight for females, we fight for transmen despite them rejecting us. (Would a bevulvaed transman really want to serve a prison sentence in the male estate? When we fight for transpeople to be in the jail of their birth sex, we are fighting to protect transmen from rape. When we defend abortion access, we defend it for transmen too.)

Lastly, by appropriating, without prefix nor modifier, our autonym of "woman" that we have had in a recognisable form ("wifmann") for at least 1500 years, transwomen steal our ability to name ourselves. Transwomen prevent us from naming ourselves as a sex class who suffer sex-based oppression and they colonise our language, just as they plan to colonise our spaces, beds, and sexualities.

Some men really have too much time on their hands

Examples of cis-privilege (from one of many lists available to make beating yourself up easier)

1. You don't have to worry about passing. (It is a lot easier to be seen as a woman when you are a woman)

1. You can buy feminine clothes that are made to fit your body (where?)

1. You don't have to hide your childhood photos

1. People usually use the correct pronouns when talking about you

With all this privilege it's amazing that cis women insist on complaining about little inconveniences that nobody cares about.

You're not alone! Using the made-up term 'Cis' is definitely a 'us and them' mentality. As a natural woman with a vagina call me a woman, you don't need to qualify it with a ridiculous term.

There is quite a bit of literate/speakers on why this is a derogatory term. Imagine if you constantly used the terms 'tranny' or 'trans' woman. You'd quickly be shouted down as creating division.

I just am so sick of men (dress or not) telling women what we can be called and how we need to refer to them.

Why are so many men obsessed with their gender and being a woman?!!!!

"Cis-privilege"?

How can one be privileged by the very thing that is the apparatus of our oppression?

Woman' is effable. 'Adult human female'. The insertion of renders of 'cis' renders it essentially ineffable.

Exactly. Ineffable describes religious beliefs and it describes trans ideology.

It's so incidious. The aim is not only to establish that males are women but that they are the most oppressed of women. Cis is necessary so that trans/cis can be posited as an axis of oppression - in the fucked up "intersectional feminism" demanded by trans and their handmaidens women now have "cis privilege"which means they need to sit down and shut up - unless they are needed as human shields or to use their privilege to amplify trans voices

I wonder how many of the young women who declare themselves non binary or transmen are seeking to escape not only the weight of their oppression as women but the guilt of their cis privilege.

I've just realised that 'effable' is a word.(means 'able to be described in words')

Them: are you cis
Me: stop using ineffable language and eff off

We need to tell people not to misgender us we identify as woman
(I occasionally identify as biowoman or real woman)

I usually see it being applied by the very same people who have a hissy fit if their preferred pronouns are not used. But they also insist on the right to give us a label that most women reject.
Anyone who says it to my face will get put in their place sharpish. I am not cis.

I've just realised that 'effable' is a word.(means 'able to be described in words')

'Woman' is effable. 'Adult human female'. The insertion of renders of 'cis' renders it essentially ineffable. (We've had enough refusals and failed attempts from the genderists to come up with an alternative definition which makes any sense). A word which can't be described in words is bloody useless.

non-trans non-man

Reflecting on cis and how different it is to "straight" which I am happy to use where appropriate in relation to gay/lesbian...

There is an important difference:

Women can be tall or short
Women can be fat or thin
Women can be old or young
Women can be lesbian or bisexual or straight
Women can be women or trans women

it is a linguistic suicide bomber that explodes the definition of 'woman'

Wow, mind blown... figuratively of course . Such an incisive way of putting it.

Anyone who uses the term cis to describe me or any woman is not worthy of respect nor debate. I don't care if they identify as the queen of fucking sheeba.

I reject cis - not just in political terms in that it shoehorns me into identifying with the subjugative feminine position in the gender hierarchy of pinkness, prettiness and meekness. But also because it makes no sense in terms of logic... the cis-trans model is used for describing physical, spatial arrangements - in stereochemistry, geography and genetics. You cannot have a spatial relationship between something physical/scientific like biological sex and something that is subjective and ineffable like gender identity.

If we enter completely into the po-mo identity vortex a cis woman is a non-trans non-man.

Yes exactly! The term "cis" as can the beloved of the Greens term "non-man" can fuck right off.

I've said here before that 'cis' (along with 'trans') is not an adjective: it is a linguistic suicide bomber that explodes the definition of 'woman', completely destroying its meaning

Completely agree Donkey.

There's no such thing as cis women, only women.

I'll not allow anyone to 'cis' me without pushback.

The media didn’t pick this up over night, they picked it up because they were harangued and lobbied.

YY. Organisations like Trans Media Watch are pushing to normalise it. Also see this response to a twitter push to normalise including your pronouns even if not trans no fucking way either

twitter.com/teresamaryclark/status/1018521326552829952?s=20

It would be considered incredibly rude, and possibly racist, to refer to that black woman when there is no need to identify that person as being black, or homophobic when refer to that lesbian when there is no need for them to be identified as such

I see what you are saying here HotRocker, but even this is implicitly accepting the false argument that 'cis' and 'trans' function as adjectives in relation to the noun, 'woman'.

But this is a sleight of hand. 'Black' or 'lesbian' (or disabled, or rich, or poor, etc.) can be used as modifiers in relation to 'woman' because they do not change the definition of the head noun (adult human female).

I've said here before that 'cis' (along with 'trans') is not an adjective: it is a linguistic suicide bomber that explodes the definition of 'woman', completely destroying its meaning.

Consider:

A black woman is an adult human female who is also black.
A lesbian woman is an adult human female who is also homosexual.
A cis woman is an adult human female who is also... female?
A trans woman is an adult human... male.

We can see that in the first two examples, 'black' and 'lesbian' have not changed the meaning of 'woman' one iota. Whereas both 'cis' and 'trans' have rendered it nonsensical.

'Straight' is in no way comparable to 'cis'. Everyone has a sexuality (be it hetero, homo, bi, poly, pan, a-). An individuals sexuality impinges on no one except themselves and their partners. If someone calls me a 'straight woman' it does not in any way alter the category 'woman'.

Being called cis REALLY gets my back up. I totally reject the term. I'm NOT cis, im a woman.

I will never allow anyone to 'cis' me.

On the Today program (March21st) with Lucy Masood, Emily Brothers described herself as 'a woman with a trans experience'

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3200310-Radio-4-now