Anyone else experiencing cognitive dissonance right now?

I've found the most push-back from leftists. I talk to right-leaning (i.e traditionalists) people and they are natural allies to my position. I do wonder if this is because of disguised/repressed homophobia - like finally we have an excuse to express our revulsion!

Maybe that is a factor but overall I think people from the right have less to loose by coming round to a GC viewpoint. Being a L/W feminist and also pro-LGBT requires lot's of soul searching. You can't rely on knee jerk thinking like transphobia = homophobia. You have to really think about it and make an educated response - one that may put you outside the bounds of normal human discourse. Nobody wants their social network to treat them as a Pariah do they?

So its a very unpopular idea here tbh, but I think people are starting to come round to it.

This being the Feminism and Women's Rights board of MN it should come as no surprise that arguing that women should give men whatever they want and maybe, just maybe, they will let us keep a few of the rights our foremothers fought for is unpopular.

Yeah, another one here, OP.

I’m in a workplace with a lot of people, especially younger people, with whom I have a lot in common politically. Except for this issue.

It’s unsettling as hell.

I think, in the fullness of time, they may regret the influence they’ve had and be left with some very difficult feelings. They do mean well.

Yes OP I'm so there. Apart from I have literally talked to no one about it apart from reading on here and reading around a little. I tried to talk to DH and got shut down the second I sounded "bigotted" to him. He's a lefty through and through and the way I tried to talk about it I think he thought I was writing out the existence of intersex and transsexuals/dysphoric people... I don't think he knows about the TRA thing and the transgender umbrella thing... and I couldn't get it across.

It's making me feel very sad and isolated honestly. I'm autistic and find debate and disagreement in real life really difficult. Can't get my thoughts in order quick enough or something and can't deal with the emotions that go with it.

Sorry if my earlier reply sounded like I was completely disregarding your idea - I wasn't. I actually think it's a very sensible middle ground which could work if any issues around it were acknowledged and dealt with.

However my main concern is many TRA refuse to accept their biology - and would view having their sex recorded as "transphobic". It really is tricky when there are so many conflicting opinions and viewpoints, and when any ideas of solutions are shouted down.

Thank you for taking the time to post your ideas in such an open-minded and articulate way

Yes I can sympathise

Just clicked on Twitter to have a look...

First two posts I can see and I'm already wishing I didn't click.

Eresh Yes, I've seen a few posts on there (I think there was a clicky link somewhere on this board). Has it been hijacked by activists yet?

I certainly think it has had some shit from TRAs, as well as some internal struggles at first.

I haven't really kept up, other people here may know more?

*particularly, sorry.

Garden Hmm, I'm not really sure.

Most people (including most transsexuals) don't "identify" as a gender, so we'd only be separating the two terms for a minority of very vocal and demanding people.

I used to see gender as synonymous with sex, and still sometimes use the terms interchangeably during casual conversations (e.g. friend's baby gender scan). However I know many GC feminists, LGB people and transsexuals now view gender as a socially constructed ideology consisting of sex-based stereotypes. So I'm not sure about having protection of something which is viewed by many as socially constructed.

In answer to what I want to be treated/protected as, I don't mind - whatever benefits society as a whole. As a biological female, I have a higher risk of being a victim of many crimes, and so I need to be protected as female. I think separating things in such a way that some protect sex and some gender wouldn't be partubularly efficient - we need a universal system across all facilities and services.

I think the best way would be to completely dispel the idea of gender altogether and move forward as a society where we recognise that sex is what needs to be acknowledged. Having a third, gender neutral space to accommodate anyone uncomfortable with M/F spaces would be best I think.

It's such a difficult topic - please one, upset another.

Yep. I'm the same. I've been a member of the Labour party and an active union member for the best part of 30 years. I've worked in a large local authority for all that time in a Labour stronghold apart from a couple of wobbles.

When I first started with the LA we had a Women's Unit! A WOMEN'S UNIT! Three fabulous and fierce women who scared the shit out of everyone and worked tirelessly.

My sister is a lesbian and my oldest and dearest friend is a gay man. I've seen, listened and tried to support them through difficult times back when we were younger.

And all this time I've always been understanding of everyone. My job requires that. But I am angry. So very fucking angry right now.

I'm not as articulate as many here, and to be honest at the moment not much of it concerns me directly now. I'm mid 40's, assertive, good job, financially secure in my own right. I have a child. But I can see the bigger picture. I look at my beautiful sister in law who had her limbs broken and teeth knocked out by her abusive partner. Who is now free and fabulous . An old school friend whose daughter was stabbed to death by her partner. And then all this other shit too. It makes me angry and sad.

there are some more twitter links in the last half of this thread as well as links to websites & blogs:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3284251-Lisa-Muggeridge-Suspended-by-Twitter-and-Quoting-her-breaches-MN-Guidelines

I am drunk just now.
My boyfriend is not understanding this
Direct action is required as we see Lesbians sticking up for themselves

@destinysdaughter
I really don't wish to be goady here. I was a leftist for many years and can remember how I felt in those days about various issues.

When you say you get called a bigot and a transphobe for speaking the truth - that's a small way to understanding how people right of centre feel almost every time they try to address an issue.
Transwomen are silencing women in the same way the left has pushed to silence more conservative opinion for years. Thinking that "phobe/ist/bigot" constitutes an argument that cannot be disputed. The frustration you feel now is the frustration I and many others have felt for years. The ignorance and shouting down in the face of logical argument.

I have first-hand experience of several contraversial issues, I have been banned from forums for sharing these experiences because the conclusions to be drawn from them are "bigoted".
Christians have been expelled from university courses for being openly against gay marriage - an opinion I believe is their right to express as much as I have the right to any of mine.
Or brexit voters being called ignorant/bigoted/racist for their views, which more often than not are none of the above.
Or people who question immigration being automatically racist bigots.
Trump supporters automatically being misogynistic morons without their reasons being listened to.

The list goes on.

Again, I really don't wish to be goady and you are totally right in your OP.
I have no idea whether you are one of the people who generalises those who disagree with you in this way.
Just food for thought, as a lot of those left of centre kill intelligent debate with similar tactics. I know I did, but it took me a while to realise it.

Completely agree with you OP. I feel like I’m living in a parallel universe at times.

Labour have betrayed women and are all so keen to be seen as woke and virtue signalling.

OP, Your post could have been mine about 8 months ago, and still I read things that literally makes my jaw drop with shock and disbeluief. I feel let down by both Political Parties that I have ever voted for (Labour and Green)

I am scared that no one (in power) is listening to us. I am scared that Trans rights seems to be usurping all other, including race, I am scared that there is insufficient time left to close the gap between us and them.

My two university age children refused to speak to me for a couple of months, we now talk but not about Trans or Self-ID. Apparently ‘it’s an age thing’ and we (GC women) will look back and realise that we were on the wrong side of history.

I have had huge support from my DH, who I Peak Transed early. I admit to being obsessed by this, but I feel like my whole being is undergoing a process of iradication and I cant stand by and see this happen to me or anyone else.

Due to my work I am unable to do anything on social media, I feel isolated in RL.

Single issue politics creates single minded behavior, and the consequences whether intended or not can be far reaching destruction.