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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Get the L Out' Statement by the lesbian protesters at Pride London

445 replies

R0wantrees · 09/07/2018 00:57

getthelout.wordpress.com/blog/

Why “Get The L Out” ?
July 5, 2018
Angela C. Wild
Who We Are

Get the L Out is a group of lesbian and feminist individuals and organisations, opposing the increasingly anti-lesbian and misogynistic LGBT movement and the erasure of lesbians

Why We Protest

We believe that lesbian rights are under attack by the trans movement and we encourage lesbians everywhere to leave the LGBT and form their own independent movement, as well as to be vocal and take action against the proposed changes to the GRA.

Get the L Out believes trans politics (with uncritical support from the LGBT movement) does the following:

Promotes the social transition of lesbians, encouraging them to present as straight men thus favouring the pretence of heterosexuality over lesbianism – this is nothing more than a form of conversion therapy.
Promotes the medical transition of lesbians and pushes harmful drugs (untested hormone blockers, Lupron etc.) as well as unnecessary medical practices on perfectly healthy bodies – these are a form of misogynist medical abuse against lesbians.
Promotes the rights of heterosexual males who “identify” as women and lesbians (despite most of them still retaining their male genitals) over the rights of lesbians to choose their sexual partners. This new ‘queer’ LGBT politics thus coerces lesbians to accept the penis as a female organ and promotes heterosexual intercourse between male and female as a form of lesbian sex. This is simply a new facet to rape culture and compulsory heterosexuality." (continues)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
BlytheByName · 09/07/2018 18:31

My managers at my workplace are proud of me! I warned them on Friday that I was protesting lesbian erasure. They get it.
The backlash has entirely demonstrated the level hatred that is there towards lesbians, and the complete lack of understanding of the impact of trans ideology on women's rights.

They are proving our point.

I am really delighted the Anonymous group are supporting us. They get it.

Keep speaking out and everyone will get it.

R0wantrees · 09/07/2018 18:04

May 2018 Graham Linehan recommended Magdalen Berns as a ' brilliant antidote' to the 'utter bilge' people are 'swallowing in the gender debate'.
twitter.com/Glinner/status/997111005892235264

Magdalen Berns video recommended in tweet:

recent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3299537-if-you-re-on-twitter-glinner-s-tweeted-a-poll

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2934803-Male-TERFS

'Get the L Out' Statement by the lesbian protesters at Pride London
OP posts:
Destinysdaughter · 09/07/2018 17:51

If any of you follow Graham Lineham on Twitter ( he wrote Father Ted and the IT Crowd), he is very gender critical, and gets a LOT of abuse for it. He's tweeted an excellent article on this ( which was on one of the other threads ). Please go show your support for him as he is one of the few male voices who sees through the bullshit and is standing up for us!

I feel very moved by the bravery of what those lesbians did, and horrified at the general reaction to it and misreporting in the press. Personally I believe all of us who are straight need to be supporting them. As someone has previously said, they are the 'canaries in the cage' and if they go down, we all go down...

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/07/2018 15:04

katara your post is excellent. Stop apologising!!

LangCleg · 09/07/2018 14:57

So, I am sorry for my randomly dumped post.

Apologise? For a great post? Don't be silly! Pull up a chair and post som more!

gendercritter · 09/07/2018 14:39

*personal accounts

gendercritter · 09/07/2018 14:39

Don't apologise. Every post here has value.

Blythe am standing with you virtually through this. You did something really important and there will be so many people out there who are relieved people like you are speaking up and saying what they are thinking. It will snowball and the movement will get louder with time.

I looked at Instagram during Pride and looked various trans hashtags. I clicked through and looked at several person accounts. 90% of them seemed to contain trans women posing in highly sexualised poses alongside masses of pouting selfies. I didn't recognise myself in terms of being a woman in any of them.

KataraJean · 09/07/2018 13:56

I suffer from PTSD. As a result, it is helpful for me to clarify where the feelings of distress come from, as otherwise they seem too overwhelming. So, I am sorry for my randomly dumped post.

KataraJean · 09/07/2018 13:54

I have been reflecting on this.

As a rape and abuse survivor, the fact that women cannot speak out about a penis being a male organ is enormously distressing.

I am all the more distressed because I have spoken and indeed taught the language of gender, as a socially set of constructed roles (masculinity/femininity) as a way of unpicking the power hierarchies at play.

I have also had at times reservations about the language of gender taking away that the power of focusing just on women as a political movement (in the 1970s and 1980s). Nonetheless, masculinity studies have laid bare the hierarchies amongst men, whether understood through the lens of patriarchy or hegemonic masculinity. So, there was some value in that.

I have also taught and believed that the language of intersectionality, as voiced by Kimberley Crenshaw in the first instance, was valuable in unpicking the ways in which race and gender could form double forms of oppression, that black women, for example, stood at an intersection where race and gender crossed. I am also aware of the way that class functions as a social marker.

All these things are valuable. All these things I have read about and taught.

At no time did I see the language of gender being co-opted to replace biological sex as something 'innate' in you. At no point did I see the language of gender being used to argue that biological organs could belong to either 'gender'. I did not ever believe that one could be a 'gender', rather gender was a social constellation of attributes which society deemed either masculine or feminine.

'Gender' is a term I can no longer endorse or use. I am not a lesbian, but I do not believe that a penis is a female organ either. I do not know why or how the language which women drew on to highlight the societal inequalities they faced decades ago is now being used to enact and reinforce those inequalities. I do not think I am a moral conservative, or illiberal. But I am genuinely distressed that women cannot protest that male organs are male, and belong to men, without being vilified and threatened, and called out in the media.

those are just random thoughts. The protestors were not anti-trans, they were pro-female bodied people.

Ereshkigal · 09/07/2018 11:43

I stand with you Blythe Thanks

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 09/07/2018 11:38

BlytheByName - and brave by nature. This straight woman is in awe of your courage and will stand with you if you ever ask. Flowers

Your protest was very successful. That's why the usual suspects are kicking off. Shows what 10 women can do to overturn the apple cart.

R0wantrees · 09/07/2018 11:26

Thread which many new to the wider issues have found useful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 09/07/2018 11:23

see also current thread,
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3300712-Twattery-on-Twitter

OP Pratchet
"And Queen Sarah Ditum's most excellent response"

'Get the L Out' Statement by the lesbian protesters at Pride London
OP posts:
R0wantrees · 09/07/2018 11:10

@ NaturalAllWoman has been suspended from Twitter. She had done an excellent thread with examples of the problems lesbians are facing. Gone

January 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3128427-Feminists-banned-for-hate-speech-on-twitter

May 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3262686-BBC-Report-Twitter-bans-women-against-trans-ideology-say-feminists

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3261984-An-Open-Letter-to-Martha-Lane-Fox-of-Twitter

Re Miranda Yardley's permanent ban:
OP TheUterati comment:
"I am sure that many of you know my reservations, shall we put it, about including 'trans' of any shade in this debate.

Nevertheless, I feel it worthwhile posting this by Yardley, who has been permanently banned from Twitter. I post this not because I particularly value Y's voice in this debate, but because the reasons why he has been permanently banned need to be made public.

mirandayardley.com/en/i-permanently-banned-twitter-make-worry/

Double-plus-ungood."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3258453-Permanent-Ban-from-Twitter-for-Hate-Speech

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260432-The-Shame-of-Twitter

OP posts:
Waddlelikeapenguin · 09/07/2018 10:51

BlytheByName you did an amazing thing Star. Stay safe Flowers

Errol thanks for the link - great comments on it!

PencilsInSpace · 09/07/2018 10:50

Flowers Blythe

@NaturalAllWoman has been suspended from Twitter. She had done an excellent thread with examples of the problems lesbians are facing. Gone Angry

Ereshkigal · 09/07/2018 10:49

Wow that's awful. How loaded.

R0wantrees · 09/07/2018 10:29

ErrolTheDragon thank you for sharing the article.

(Extract)

"The “mixed-muffin gender berry challenge” is one of a number of exercises included in Agenda, a free online toolkit distributed to more than 1,400 young people across Wales.

Its author, Emma Renold, professor of childhood studies at Cardiff University, has received a £10,000 award for her work, including the Agenda guide, which aims to teach young people about healthy relationships and raise awareness of sexual violence and discrimination.

Critics have warned that the toolkit’s guide to transgender identity does more harm than good.

The exercise distributes muffins around a group. Those whose cakes have blueberries inside are asked to stand by blue balloons, representing the stereotype of masculinity in one corner of the room. Those with raspberry muffins are asked to stand by pink balloons, representing the stereotype of femininity, in another corner. Those with mixed muffins found that they had no place to stand. “After this activity, we asked how they felt being categorised according to a muffin they did not choose, what it felt like to go to a gender-coded corner that they might not identify with, and what it felt like not to have a corner at all,” the guide said.

“This got us all talking about how we come into the world already coded through gender labels; how you can’t assume someone’s gender by how they look: what it feels like to be given a gender you might not choose; and not to have your gender represented at all.”

Critics have accused the guide of falsely presenting transgender and non-binary identities as the only alternative for people who do not fit sexist stereotypes.

Kathleen Stock from the University of Sussex, who is working on the conflict of rights in the transgender debate, said the “confused and contradictory” exercise “read a bit like satire.”

She said: “The materials are troubling because they effectively encourage young people, and particularly gender non-conforming girls and young lesbians, to conclude that their distressing feelings aren’t just a sign that the world is sexist, but rather a sign that they themselves need fixing.” (continues)

Recent thread discussing Kathleen Stock's work and also the recent attempts to censor and smear her:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3289890-great-piece-by-academic-kathleen-stock-mentions-mn

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 09/07/2018 10:24

The comments following the 'muffin' piece are overwhelmingly sane.

bigoldscaredycat · 09/07/2018 10:23

I truly believe Blythe and the other brave women have lit a flame. This is the beginning of the backlash.

ErrolTheDragon · 09/07/2018 10:19

The Times said 'anti-trans' too, on a photojournalism type bit that doesn't seem possible to get a link to.

But interesting juxtaposition, it followed this

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-muffin-exercise-sends-wrong-message-gs7z0zgcz?shareToken=ea2ec30452154fd415bc89a9716f49e1

Lesbianequalsfemalehomosexual · 09/07/2018 10:18

I hope what Blythe and her friends have done will be the beginning of a huge powerful articulate unstoppable backlash against this misogyny. I'll do anything I can. I'm so so proud abd feel like my bolshy dykey little 20 year old self going on proper Pride marches back in the glorious day.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 09/07/2018 10:14

I have been amazed by the fact that positive tweets have been top of the #pride #prideinlondon and #pridelondon hashtags. So many people are supportive, grateful and inspired!

boldlygoingsomewhere · 09/07/2018 10:05

Just want to add my voice to support you Blythe. You have done something brave in the current climate. Lesbians asserting their sexual boundaries at Pride should not cause this amount of vitriol.

Stay strong and I hope you have good support in real life too.!

Jengabrick · 09/07/2018 09:53

I wonder what George Orwell would have made of all this? So many double negatives and invented terms. Cislesbian, natal lesbian, trans lesbian, where a man he would have probably have called a 'transvestive' can grow their hair a bit, wear a pink hoodie and declare themselves a lesbian. It's hard to decode.

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