Can we talk about the mental impact of being told the definition of woman is changing?

enoughisenough12 wrote: I'd be very interested in reading a psychological explanation of the impact that this denial of reality is having on women. I wonder whether anyone is studying this?

I don't know about the specific issue you raise but you'll be aware that Stock's recent piece has seen people calling for her dismissal.

The social conformity aspects and stepping-stones to how to implement totalitarianism are alarming yet I don't have a sense that researchers or professionals feel free to explore them.

@bd67th I don't know what thread that is. Do you have a link?

May I take the opportunity to share Sarah's sage advice - which h'obviously applies in both directions, or Sarah would be a hypocrite - to the TRAs here on mn...

Well said.

May I take the opportunity to share Sarah's sage advice - which h'obviously applies in both directions, or Sarah would be a hypocrite - to the TRAs here on mn...

"For anyone for whom this is impacting their mental health, I would suggest they leave MN and other social media and just carry on as normal."

There we go.

I agree floral

Fucking tone deaf

How reassuring for a TRA to rock up to the thread, pat us all on the head and tell us that we've got nothing to worry about - and that if we're feeling got at by the incessant bullshit, 'non-trans' women should suck it up and leave MN to the TRAs.

That's the mindset here - women talk about their vulnerabilities, TRAs see it as an opportunity to run them off. Much compassion, much empathy.

For anyone for whom this is impacting their mental health, I would suggest they leave MN and other social media and just carry on as normal

For anyone for whom this is impacting their mental health, I would suggest they dont pay any attention to randoms telling them what they should and shouldn't do

I am sorry to hear about the mental health problems people are reporting.

There seems to be massive scare mongering regarding the effects of the proposed legal changes - and it seems that this transphobia is hurting not just trans women but non-trans women as well.

I am now unable to use places such as gyms, swimming pools, changing rooms and similar settings because of my fear of being in intimate spaces with unknown male bodied people

The law that controls access to these places the Equality Act has not changed in the last 8 years and the government has reaffirmed that it won't change.

For anyone for whom this is impacting their mental health, I would suggest they leave MN and other social media and just carry on as normal.

I am extremely new to MN and have hesitated to join since all my friends have filled me in on the censorship here and I am not willing to be part of the few making money off our participation. But after reading Justine's post yesterday, I just can't shut up any longer. The ageism in what she writesa woman who appears to be around 50denigrating her fellow women by essentially instructing us that we are 'just behind' the youth culture which she so clearly wants to "nurture". Indeed, they are future clicks for this site and she knows where her money comes from. Certainly not women my mother's age whose opinions seem to matter little to the very CEOs who will be able to attend a private pool where males and females are clearly separated, where being ageist is more then ok--it's how the rich get richer and where speaking out about a group being a "zillion times" worse than that of women just makes me wonder what this person is doing running a platform where she is taking part in the mass gaslighting of women.

I am just over 30, I have been acutely aware of the brainwashing of trans theory from my days in uni and yeah this sucks for those of us who can see that 2+2 does not equal 5. I have to wonder if women should not just abandon women only media spaces such as this. MN like NM and many others give the verneer of "freedom", but how free are we if we must be told that our suffering is a zillion times worse than a man who likes to wear dresses. Yeah, my heart goes out to all these men, but from where I am sitting I hear oodles more from Paris Lees and Jane Faye than I do from women--not even feminists, just women.

Of course, this hurts our mental health and those of children. How are we supposed to raise them in a world to fight against injustice when naming realitymales, femalesis not only verboten, but the head of forums like this identify with males who suffer but are clearly economically doing far better than most of us here and elsewhere. The real question for me is really not about safety in toilets and hospital wards, although this is a massive issue, my query is why are we being told what to say and how we should respectfully speak with others when our speech is respectful.

This is all very much a postmodern Catherine wheel.

AuntLydiasSteelyArmPitHair Thank you for sharing your story and so sorry that this is affecting you so badly.

I'd be very interested in reading a psychological explanation of the impact that this denial of reality is having on women. I wonder whether anyone is studying this?

a person that is the same sex as 50% of the population am expected to pay a premium for a single room as it is now ME that is the freak that expects my private spaces to remain private.

I propose we call this the "rape victim tax". It's not enough that we are sexually victimised because of our sex not gender, we then pay extra throughout life in private rooms, private counselling, missed work, anything I've missed?

@AuntLydiasSteelyArmPitHair have you thought about adding your testimony to the Penny Mordaunt thread and asking her whether she thinks it's fair that sexual abuse victims have to pay a premium to stay safe?

I reckon CSA and rape.victims outnumber trans people. Why should we come last?

One must take great care that in dismantling historical safeguarding measures, that women and children are not put in harms way - they are there for a reason because of male violence and deviancy - the Chesterton Fence principle needs to apply

Aunt Lydia thankyou for your very powerful post

@AuntLydiasSteelyArmPitHair You deserved so much better.

@Snappity, @bespin et all, read that post and tell me, with a straight face and looking into my eyes that a woman who has been subjected to that should have to sleep or change in the same room as someone with a penis.
What about my horrific memories of him climbing into bed behind me, forcing me flat against the wall and pushing my my little pony nighty up and hurting me? The smell of his semen on me and the sickly BO aroma that I was covered in afterwards from him sweating on me.

This , Brexit , and the slow theft of the NHS .
A dystopian nightmare at the hands of patriarchy , all of it .

I am a survivor of child hood sexual abuse, domestic violence and have PTSD as well as bipolar.

I feel a serious and deep despondency about this entire erosion of female rights. I am typically manic at this time of year, what with the extra sunlight and long days but this year I have found myself stuck in a serious depressive slump for the first summer ever.

If rape is to be forcefully penetrated by a penis, against your will.....then what if the man that rapes somebody says he is a woman with a giant lady clitoris. Does that mean they were not raped?

A great deal of biological women have experienced male aggression/violence/intimidation etc. The youth hostels used to be a safe place to stay but now anybody can stay in any room at all and me, a person that is the same sex as 50% of the population am expected to pay a premium for a single room as it is now ME that is the freak that expects my private spaces to remain private. Done beliveve me? this a quote from an email when I enquired-

"We separate our shared dormitory accommodation by gender.

It sounds like on this occasion a private room would be most suitable for your stay."

So despite gender being a social construct that resides on the head, I am supposed to put my need for safe space to one side and allow anybody with a penis to share my room. Because of what is in their head.

What about what is in MY head?

What about my horrific memories of him climbing into bed behind me, forcing me flat against the wall and pushing my my little pony nighty up and hurting me? The smell of his semen on me and the sickly BO aroma that I was covered in afterwards from him sweating on me. Why the hell should I have to encounter that in a fucking changing room meant for WOMEN.

I do not want communal toilets either. When my fanny is dripping lumps of chopped up liver and i'm sat vulnerable with my pants round my ankles and I'm fighting with my moon cup, I do not want a 10 inch gap under a flimsy cubicle door with Bob the builder having a shit next to me and Mike from accounts trying to have a conversation about if I will go out for drinks with him. When my hands are covered in blood as its my heaviest day, I do not want the side eye from men at the sink as they judge me for having the fucking cheek to menstruate.

I was not able to join in with the manfriday stuff on twitter as my profession is linked to my account, how bad is that? I was scared to raise my voice despite it being a law abiding campaign!?

I have also postponed my PhD. I was due to start this year. Without sounding dramatic, this hangs like a black cloud over my head and I worry sick for my children. the rights of 50% of the population are being decimated for the few snowflakes that want to mansplain what it is to chest feed and campaign for two fathers on a birth certificate.

I'm a woman and proud. Men have not broken me yet but at times it does feel overwhelming and I am actually crying my eyes out writing this.

I am a woman.

NOT a ciswoman.

Yes, I'm afraid and angry and frustrated that it has come to this, and that there is so little willingness to find a solution which protects everyone.

this is another thread that may be of interest called Taking it out on your body - possible roots

Was me joy, thank you

Thanks pftt - I needed your words and agree with what you said. I stumbled across all this only a month ago. My MH has definitely been affected. I can't even talk to my DD about it because I know I'd just cry. I've tried to explain to 2 very close women friends and they can't believe it...I've also told DH who was also incredulous and there's been loads of 'surely no, this really can't happen?'
I'm scared and angry and frustrated and I can't stop thinking about it.
There is a part of me that thinks 'will it be that bad?..it's only a small %age of people..' but the exponential tidal wave of support from national organisations and the media has totally floored me.
We won't be silenced. The rest of the country, who are currently in ignorant bliss will eventually know and it will hit the fan.... I hope...

Someone asked for a li k to the video that talks about trans issues possibly being indicative of cultural collapse, as seen historically.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3291763-Lessons-from-history-Transgender-Mania

This is an important and valuable thread. It's really therapeutic to read all these comments because it's so exhausting to be someone who believes the truth about XX/XY today.

It's fucking me off no end. I'm a DV survivor and am constantly reminded of my gaslighlighting Ex. I ran away from him in bare feet and it's taken years to actually escape. The rage is real.

I am furious and scared and I feel like I am inhabiting a parallel universe where some kind of mass delusion has taken hold.

To hear intelligent people parroting uncritically that some men are women and that said men are more oppressed than women just feels like we are living in some kind of Orwellian nightmare. People including friends, relatives, colleagues, academics, politicians, writers, ‘feminists’.... It’s hard to fathom. I thank God for these boards, a small haven of sanity amidst this utter insanity.

To hear a politician, and the Minister for Women at that, say that some men are women, just adds a new dimension to the nightmare.