Reality check

I'm suggesting that this "war" is something that you have created, that only you can stop,

Why don’t you help to work out a solution that meets everyone’s needs? That’s what will stop any ‘war’.

There has actually been a lot of agreement on here in the last few days. We have come to a bit of a consensus that women who have issues sharing with transwomen should be able to access segregated spaces. That’s a big deal.

Also on another thread we have worked out how self ID does in fact impact and have a bearing on the Equality Act.

When I say ‘we’ I mean me and other posters who have different views to mine, like Snappity and daimbars.

You aren’t going to get Mumsnet shut down so stop being so silly

Damn, did you just misgender Ms Madigan?!

Talking about biology is not dangerous
Trying to protect safe spaces for women and girls is not dangerous
BUT
trying to remove those protections is dangerous to women and girls
trying to shut down women's speech is dangerous
attacking and doxxing women simply because they don't agree with one viewpoint is dangerous

but seem to think it's OK to put far more dangerous material in front of hundreds of thousands of people on MN

What 'dangerous' material is that then?

Bowlofbabelfish
women assembling and speaking is neither incitement to hatred nor an attack.
Watch the straw men go marching by!
I never said or suggested that it was. But to go on deliberately pushing false "facts" that encourage people to hate or fear trans people is.

So I wonder what it is about MN that enrages you so? Because this is predominantly a female space? Why is your anger directed here and not at these other online places which genuinely do have some hateful and unpleasant material on
I don't go trawling the internet looking for abuse.
But what annoys me about MN is the dishonesty -- the persistent repetition of the same old lies, the protestations of injured innocence when you are called out for it, the victim-blaming and DARVO.
And the huge readership makes it particularly dangerous. You make a big thing of some frustrated kid running off at the mouth to his few dozen followers on twitter, but seem to think it's OK to put far more dangerous material in front of hundreds of thousands of people on MN.

I'm all for transactivists being given the platform to speak, because it is always incredibly revealing.

But, frankly, this is difficult to read.

When you are forearmed with the knowledge of what coercive control looks like (DARVO, the Duluth Wheel, lies, hyperbole, etc), it's rather painful to see being played out quite so comprehensively.

It's well documented that trans people have a high rate of co morbid mental health issues. Narcissism being one of them. In fact the most prevalent, I believe.

It's little wonder that women conclude that this aspect is another reason to keep spaces segregated.

Damn acting this way is really no advert for what they are advocating.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/

Quite an eye popping thread

No one is attacking transpeople.FALSE; There are 1000+posts every day on MN doing exactly that

And another lie.

Why are you here damn? Do you get your kicks from gas lighting?

There are 1000+posts every day on MN doing exactly that

Where?

I will remind you that criticism isn’t hateful.

It can seem like that to some people - for example the concept of narcissistic rage links into this, but women assembling and speaking is neither incitement to hatred nor an attack.

I can tell you where there is plenty of transphobia - several other online forums, predominantly male based. I’ve had a look round there and it’s not for me - too much unpleasantness and not enough focus on the rights of women and children, and indeed also transwomen/transmen to live safely in society. As I’ve said, countless times, I’m firmly beside transpeople being accepted in society and breaking down our oppressive gender stereotypes- at the same time I worry about the impacts of potential legislative changes on the safety of women and children and that’s what I want to have a public discussion about.

So I wonder what it is about MN that enrages you so? Because this is predominantly a female space? Why is your anger directed here and not at these other online places which genuinely do have some hateful and unpleasant material on?

Oh look, my favourite website has a bit about JADE too...

outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/jade-dont-justify-argue-defend-explain

Damnthatonestakentryanother2

Then why spend so much time and effort attacking trans people? Completely irrelevant.

Hi Damn. I think it is fairly evident by now that our views are not simpatico. Additionally, I find your tone to be domineering and often triggering to other FWR members, many of whom are my friends. Therefore, I would prefer not to interact with you. If we find ourselves contributing to the same threads, please do not address me directly or quote my posts in order to engage me. This is a clear boundary. Please respect it. I won't be responding further. All the best.

Cripes dam

U still got a lot of anger going on

Go to the police abou5 ur wife.

And I am not trying shut a woman's place down:

Excellent. It did seem as though you were, but I’ll take your word for it.

I am hoping that a website that is hiding behind a veneer of feminism in order to publish material that invites hatred will be shut down. Quite different.

Which website is that then, since you’re not trying to shut down WPUK?

Or are you saying that WPUK are engaging in incitement to hatred? That’s quite an allegation.

I see nothing of the sort in their website or actions. Transpeople are encouraged to speak at their events and their entire premise is respectful debate.

What specifically are you objecting to?

Does the fact that women have places, events and Fora to speak and assemble count as incitement to you?

I always wonder if they expect anyone to actually believe the hyperbole or if it just makes them feel good to engage in it.

Bowlofbabelfish
No one is attacking transpeople.
FALSE; There are 1000+posts every day on MN doing exactly that
Women are concerned over the effects on women and children’s safety, privacy and dignity, and the effect on child safeguarding.
Only because a handful of antitrans propagandists have managed to con them into believing that a threat exists. (CF '"rivers of blood" speech)

- create false statement that sets a position
- detail and force apology/justification
- create implicit threat involving power structure/law enforcement.*
Thank you for that extract from the anti-trans training manual. I have seen you and others using that technique, but never realised that it had been written down and published.

Naw we not doing that dam. No way
No hatred o4 violence being asked to be used here against any person
But if ur wife beat u u should have gone to the police
The relationship board can help with this so if u post on there the folks there can help

And I am not trying shut a woman's place down: I am hoping that a website that is hiding behind a veneer of feminism in order to publish material that invites hatred will be shut down. Quite different.

Again, if the women using it believe it is a feminist board, then who are you to come along and say it isn't feminism - you are all just doing it wrong?

I know some of you think the world would be a better place if all trans people just quietly killed themselves (as far too many have done) but I am pleased to say that my daughters don't agree with you.

See this - this is the rhetoric that is brought up to try and coerce women into submitting. It is intimidation.

You know this is abusive behaviour right?

See the Power and Control wheel posted yesterday by Lang.

I know some of you think the world would be a better place if all trans people just quietly killed themselves

Classic lie there damn. It really fascinates me how excessively hyperbolic the trans narrative consistently is. Do you think posting those lies endears you to lurkers? Do you think people reading this stuff suddenly think MN posters are actually posting such comments? Or does it just show you up as someone with a 'problematic' acquaintance with truth & facts?

Adapted rule fits the situation in today's climate
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no men anyone is a hate crime I will leave you to identify who may be anyone

I know some of you think the world would be a better place if all trans people just quietly killed themselves (as far too many have done).

Good grief...thats ridiculous hyperbole. The use of suicide threats as a control technique is well established.

Nobody - NOBODY on here has ever said, insinuated, wanted or encouraged such a thing. No one.

This is about the safety, privacy and dignity of women and children and child safeguarding.

and this was the response to Justine and Mumsnet publically declaring their commitment to free and civil discussion of something so 'important' to many concerned about women's rights:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3222471-AIBU-to-be-extremely-proud-of-Justine-Roberts-Mumsnet-right-now

See also current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3291425-Gender-Critical-Lurkers

Tellseveryone......
You cannot have it both ways - you cannot be 'trans' when it suits and try to shut a woman's space down, and be a 'woman' when it suits because the very act of trying to shut a woman's space down, confirms the fact that you do not think of yourself as a woman.
If I could have chosen not to be trans, I would have done. But I didn't have that option. I fought against it for decades, and eventually failed. I know some of you think the world would be a better place if all trans people just quietly killed themselves (as far too many have done) but I am pleased to say that my daughters don't agree with you.
And I am not trying shut a woman's place down: I am hoping that a website that is hiding behind a veneer of feminism in order to publish material that invites hatred will be shut down. Quite different.