Posters jumping before they're pushed

I have been here for 16 years. Never been suspended or banned.

I'm afraid to post.

I'm also still unable to get into my original account.

I have one more thread in me, and then I think I may well be done.

I am heartened by the conversations I'm having in real life. I don't particularly seek out conversations on women's rights but will happily engage when it comes up.
Feminism is alive and well out there, even in unlikely places. My impression is that most people don't think about certain things in life until it impacts them.
Most of the people I've spoken with are thoughtful, decent people and their first instinct in inclusivity (good) and that to a large extent transgender is is nothing new - everyone knows someone, or was that questioning child, or even is that trans adult, but then you realise this is a complex, nuanced issue. There are competing rights and the solution is not to ride roughshod over women and children. More thought, more discussion is needed. Careful, well considered legislation is essential.

If you get deleted could you ensure you record what you said and send your quote to some one at the other place, we need a record of what women are saying which is now deemed unacceptable.

When women were getting banned from Twitter it was covered on the radio but nic Williams didn't have examples, so the TRA was able to claim it was transphobic hate speak being deleted.

We need a record of the silencing.
I hope some one can do this.

Can I please have a message for the other place? I don't post much if at all (deleted my account previously) but I do read a lot.

This is a really sorry state of affairs. It was MN that opened my eyes to what was actually going on and I'm thankful for that. I'm a tough old boot so it doesn't affect my mental health, it just makes me fucking furious.

recent post by GeorgeFayne

"I considered myself a "feminist" for most of my adult life, but can honestly say I didn't give much thought to the theory or basis behind that position. I believed in the equality of and the oppression of women, and largely considered feminism in terms of workplace equity, freedom of personal choice, supporting women globally, (including ending religious practices like FGM), etc. I don't suppose I ever sat and pondered the questions: what is a woman? WHY are women oppressed and always have been? Is there such a thing as "feeling" like a woman? What is femininity? What is the difference between sex and gender?

Last year, I started researching the issue of trans kids for clinical reasons, which led to further reading about the transgender rights movement. What I have ended up learning and discovering has changed my perspective on so much, including my own belief system about men, women, and our very sense of being.

In attempting to redefine the meaning of woman to include biological males, women face what I fear may be our greatest threat ever: complete erasure.

Our biology is at the core of this issue, and it matters. Being able to discuss the very definition of woman and WHY we face the oppression we do very much intersects with the idea that men cannot share this. Further, years and years of dedicated work to ensure that women have the protections we need, be it a domestic violence shelter or a separate sporting league, are all in jeopardy (by the inclusion of biological males). How is this not a feminist issue?

Though I'm genuinely frightened of the consequences of further erosion of women's rights, I can credit this debate for helping me to find my voice, my clarity on what it means to be a woman, my resolve in raising children that will understand the difference between gender and sex, (and work to eliminate the trappings of such), and has prompted me to deeply consider how I can help my class globally to fight patriarchal oppression. Thank you to this forum for helping this baby feminist "find her wings!"

Don't be silenced. In the words of MLK, "our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.""

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3286940-Why-are-trans-things-discussed-in-Feminism-section-not-a-separate-topic-or-have-I-missed-something?msgid=78929100#78929100

Am staying till I get booted
✌️

I hope women dont leave. I know myself and others need their wisdom. If some need to take an understandable mental health break, I hope in future they feel they can return feeling better and stronger. sending tea and cake.

May I also have the directions to the other place please? Thank you.

I maintain that this all comes back to the idea that a website run by women for women should be 'kind' and 'nice' at all times, even if doing that could negatively affect the lives of its prime users.

THIS

Maybe they looked at our clicks and what we spend and decided it wasn't worth it. I don't buy direct from MN links, I open a new page and do it unconnected to my MN account. So I'm on the face of it a non-contributor. Maybe it's something to do with our spend.

A small portion do believe it genuinely and another portion pretend to believe it. The vast majority about 95% of the population, don't believe.

It is interesting and somewhat telling that women are feeling stressed and upset by these 'guidelines' (and they deserve inverted commas because they aren't necessarily guiding anyone) but it is the trolls (and we know you see them) who get away with stuff and apparently the trolls whose feelings matter. I wonder if it crosses your mind that the trolls don't buy the nappies and other products you advertise to mothers here? (assuming we can still call a mother a mother??)

Policing women's voices to the extent that is happening here is siding with patriarchy and siding with men who abuse them.

I have started a new thread.

I wondered if before people left they might like to highlight a thread, discussion or resource they think important or significant.

I've only become aware of this issue over recent months and have learned so much from the women on this board and will forever be grateful

Long term posters hold so much knowledge and experience.

Its all here within the discussions... ( unless deleted or on a zapped thread)

Thank you

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3287977-Long-term-members-of-FWR-if-youre-leaving-might-you-choose-a-thread-or-resource-before-you-go-please?

Eech I don't think that's completely true, particularly of the sort of person, across all classes mainly middle class who went to University despite being rather stupid. Certainly I know people who believe that a toddler can know if its brain is a different sex to its body and that Munroe Bergdorf actually has a woman's brain and therefore is a woman.

The thing is, in real life, no one buys any of this.

I saw this article on FB the other day (it came up as one of my friends always comments on Vice articles)

broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/evq43w/buck-angel-how-learning-to-love-my-vagina-affirmed-my-manhood

Every single one of the hundreds of comments underneath was saying how ridiculous it was, that if you have a vagina you are not a man, etc etc. It was unanimous, from mainly men with some women also saying that same. Some of the comments were quite nasty and unnecessary. I couldn't see a single comment either accusing anyone of transphobia, or explaining why its perfectly possible for a man to have a vagina.

No one believes it.

I maintain that this all comes back to the idea that a website run by women for women should be 'kind' and 'nice' at all times, even if doing that could negatively affect the lives of its prime users.

Would anyone mind PMing me a link to The Other Place?

I’ve been thinking about the guidelines and other posters’ response to them, and based on the more in depth reading by people who are better at picking up nuance and implication - I don’t understand them well enough to consistently abide by what MNHQ want. I am confused about how we can talk about biology except when we can’t, and we should avoid offensive language except when we’re the target. I don’t do well with this kind of case by case moderation approach that seems to rely so heavily on opinion and tone. My brain needs hard and fast rules!

Might still be about to talk knitting and TTC and appropriate topics, but this place is too stressful for me at the mo.

I don’t post often but FWR has always been the section I’ve read the most on MN. I have appreciated all the things I have read and been introduced to over the years - it’s so very sad that this, one of the very few places on the internet where I could find a woman dominated space has come to this.

I would appreciate a link or invite to the GC forum if that is ok - I may even be more vocal over there :)

It was Mumsnet that alerted me and numerous others to this issue. However, although I don't post much, I now feel as if I am colluding with an unfair fettering of speech. I feel embarrassed to ask but I would appreciate a message about the other place just in case.

That is a great idea. I also give them permission to share my pdf of the intersex "infertile women" thread.