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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why do social services take away the children instead of the violent man?

210 replies

chaoticgood · 23/06/2018 22:59

Call me naive but I had never really considered before how a common reason for removing children from their homes & separating them from their mothers is that the mother "refuses to leave" their violent partner and the children are considered to be in danger from the man. I saw a documentary about this recently and then looked into it more and I am absolutely shocked that men who are considered a danger to children are so often allowed to remain in normal society while the child and the mother are forcibly separated, causing immense trauma to both, and the child is put into care with all the known disadvantages that brings.

I don't know why everyone is not shouting from the rooftops about the absolute inhumanity and insanity of this. If a man is a danger to children why is he not locked up? People who are a danger to themselves and others are supposed to be sectioned under the mental health act, I thought. If they are a man and the "others" to whom they are a danger are their partner's children then what, that's ok because boys will be boys, and we should remove the child from the danger instead because the danger itself is just how the world is and can't be helped, we can only try to get out of its way?

It seems to me that the assumptions behind this practise and behind the acceptance of it are:

  1. Male violence is a fact of life, like the weather. It's a mother's job to protect her child from these things, and if she does not manage it she does not deserve to keep the child.
  2. Men are entitled to abuse their partner and their partner's children. A man who goes next door and assaults his neighbours will be in prison or sectioned but in His Own House Under His Roof the rules are different.
  3. Women "choose" to remain with violent men for the sheer fun of it and those who do so are selfish women who are choosing for themselves at the expense of their children. (All this choosing going on, huh, it's not as if violent men ever target vulnerable, previously abused women and mess with their heads until they lose sight of their free will or anything.)

I just don't get how social services can have enough evidence of a child being in danger to actually remove them, but somehow that evidence is not enough to remove the man who is actually doing the bad things???

OP posts:
RachelfromFriends · 23/06/2018 23:09

I get your point OP

Snappity · 23/06/2018 23:09

For once I am in full agreement with LangCleg

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 23/06/2018 23:09

There are lots of people who advocate for only removing children if the parent has been convicted of something - which is the standard of proof you are basically asking for in your OP.

That would condemn many thousands of children to lives of severe emotional physical and sexual abuse and neglect. The system we have is very far from perfect - and I'd argue that we have set the standard way too low - but it does take into account that there will be situations where there is little prospect of securing a conviction but where children are in danger.

LangCleg · 23/06/2018 23:08

See, for example, this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244817-Universal-credit-domestic-abuse.

HollowTalk · 23/06/2018 23:07

It's very complicated, isn't it? I understand how women can be ground down by men, but if they cannot protect their child by leaving a man like this, then the child has to be put somewhere safe.

I think the problem is the reluctance of the police to arrest men like this and the legal system which means sentences for violent crimes are too short.

LangCleg · 23/06/2018 23:06

Because the Children Act makes witnessing domestic violence "significant harm" and this is sufficient to remove a child from the home.

The Children Act was written with the assumption that abused women would have the means to leave - ie a working social security system; secure tenancies; sufficient domestic violence services; jobs offering a living wage; accessible childcare. Austerity took all that away. Hence the massive rise in care applications.

The family courts do recognise this and often order mothers to participate in things like the Freedom Programme, to help them recognise less obvious forms of abuse such as coercive control. But they can't magic up services where none exist and the law mandates them to be child-centred, not woman-centred.

It's a dreadful state of affairs.

chaoticgood · 23/06/2018 23:06

Social services aren't the police, only the police could remove him anyway. Sure but evidence is evidence. If there is evidence of the man being a danger, why don't the police remove him?

OP posts:
chaoticgood · 23/06/2018 23:04

Please don't get me wrong, I've just realised that could seem like a dig at people on here who work for social services but I don't mean it that way. I mean that our society as a whole seems to have those assumptions baked into it, and the whole system including police, courts and so on are operating according to them. Of course social services do what they can to keep kids safe in the face of that.

OP posts:
Satchell · 23/06/2018 23:03

Neither of them are fit parents. Him for obvious reasons, her for not protecting the children.
Social services aren't the police, only the police could remove him anyway.

sheepsheep · 23/06/2018 23:01

No one is assuming that the woman chooses to stay for the fun of it, but if she cannot safeguard her children then she is not a fit parent.

It really is as simple as that.