New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

Thanks for the links R0wantrees.
Trans Exclusive Radical Feminists were so named because we excluded males from feminism regardless of how they identify.

How bizarre to discover that this resulted in the great and powerful Trans Exclusive Radical Feminists excluding transgender persons from housing education employment and United Nations protections.

James Kirkup asked, "Bluntly, why the hell is no one in politics shouting from the rooftops about this stuff? We’re talking about people trying to put the frighteners on Mumsnetters, for goodness sake... Yet the politicians who were desperate to talk biscuits at Mumsnet Towers are curiously silent about the intimidation that some women now report there"

& concluded
"It’s because those women have been – quite successfully and even skilfully – demonised and stigmatised, put beyond the pale of civilised debate as those who question orthodoxy often are. They’ve been given a name, a name that means they’re bad people, people who should not speak and should not be heard. That name is “Terf,” which once meant “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” but now appears to stand in its own right as a term of abuse and dismissal alongside the other short, harsh words often used to question the worth and virtue of women.

And that small number of people who direct violence and abuse at “Terfs” are swimming in a larger sea of contempt and dismissal. Their conduct takes place in a social context where hostility to “Terfs” has become not just normal but even amusing, where there is no social cost to talking about and perhaps even inciting violence towards women who hold “unacceptable” views. Simply, some people, including people who would never themselves engage in that sort of violence, are doing things that make violent discourse and even violence look and feel OK. Sadly, they include journalists and politicians, people who parade their support for minority groups but speak about feminist women in terms they would never use about other people."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/fear-and-loathing-grips-the-gender-debate/

Did gaslighting gibberty change their name to snappity?
I am confused.

Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex, and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that only the true believer actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?
How will non believers be punished?
Governments have mandated belief before. It never ends well for women and children, nor for the kingdom.

Oh and wanting people to send in their personal details such as birth certificates (on this thread) and ID (on another thread) is deeply deeply suspect

I would try very hard not to take MNHQ's current attitude towards 'fairness' as a sign of weakness if i were you

You are liable to be disappointed with the results

SupermatchGame

Are these the 'silly threats on social media' you're referring to?
terfisaslur.com

You may be interested to know that the NUS Women's slide show 'How to deal with Terfs' has been shared /endorsed by people with quite a lot of political influence.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs

It recommends this site: theterfs.com

on Mumsnet we accept

Can ya stop with all the fucking weeing!!!

We don't need to do anything

@SupermatchGame if you think we are mean and nasty because of misgendering, then please read this blog. It might open your eyes.
manfridayuk.org/2018/05/04/manfriday-the-11th-our-very-own-art-exhibition/#more-1060

Thank you Rowan

Is it just me who leaves threads open on a page on their phone and then comes back to read later? Because usually they either bounce to the top of the page I have left them on or stay on the post I’ve last read. For some reason this thread becomes a blank tab. This only happens to me when a thread has been deleted. And yet here this thread is and every time I stop reading it for more than 10 mins or open another tab on my phone this page defaults to a blank tabz

Weird.

I find this whole thing baffling.
I am happy to refer to transpeople individually by their preferred pro noun because I’m one of those over polite women who has been conditioned to be nice. However as HCP I will not deny biology. Do I need to start referring to gonad positions? By their propensity to suffer from specific conditions that relate only to their sex? “Individual who may develop a female?”
Or as we women have been told we don’t have “fresh vaginas” how about person with a fresh vagina Vs us plain old unfresh vagina-d women/cunt-y woman?

Women, those of us of a specific (protected) class need to be able to define who we are with no interference from people who have been born, raised and socialised within the class who oppress us.

SupermatchGame

Can I confirm that you are accusing women on this forum of being
"cruel, oppressive and repellant... (telling) appalling lies... (being a) threat to an oppressed minority" ?

Thanks for the laugh ROwantrees - LM, SF and MB role models!

SMG
Nothing is as appalling as the abuse dealt out to women by transactivists. It's disgusting, it's so horrific. Quote 'I hope someone rapes you, I hope someone rapes your daughter, I hope someone slices you open' - on and on it goes, punch a terf, kill terfs, smash their teeth in, murder her, death to all terfs' and you have no idea and you compare it to misgendering? For real? And you think your time is better spent suggesting that mumsnet is not a place for traumatised women, than confronting the people who make these upsetting, distressing and fearsome threats?

Really? Really?

We see you

How come you're here, on mumsnet, when you could be taking out side against those gross extremists?

I've never come across most of them before reading about them on this site. I'm not on twitter or facebook (I might join), so never heard of them. Obviously I'd heard of Paris Lees (guardian, Vice, question time) and IW (Big Brother, Jenni Murray-gate). But I also read Julie Bindel as much as PL.

What drew me in to participate here was the extreme misgendering. The TWAM referring to even medically transitioned women by some people. I'm not supporting self ID or unrestricted access to female spaces without any checks and safeguards, but it is the voices here saying even transitioned women should be excluded that inspires me to post.

I find the calls here to repeal the GRA so that trans people can't change their legal sex cruel, oppressive and repellant, for various reasons.

If the don't represent you, how come you never speak up against it?

I have on occasion. I kind of feel the appalling lies I see here about trans people as being more of a threat to an oppressed minority than the fringe activists, or 'gross extremists' as you have called them. Most people haven't even heard of them. The exception being the person who assaulted Maria Maclachlan of course and the silly threats some of them have made on social media (which I have condemned).

ImagineBeing
Its curious isn't it? Given a couple of weeks ago, the biggest threat to people who are transgender was identified as being 'the far right'

Lowenna Waters' article concludes:
"Another key force fighting the right wing attacks on the transgender community is the tireless work of activists themselves, who fight day in and day out to challenge the status quo.

Activists and transgender people such as Jake Graf, Monroe Bergdorf, Hannah Winterborne, Lily Madigan, and Shon Fey all use their platforms to chip away at the negative propaganda.

Despite being subject to a barrage of abuse on social media platforms like Twitter, and some even reporting the receipt of death threats, their high-profile presence ploughs the furrow for younger gender non-conforming people, and gives them role models.

For Jake, one of the most important thing is that the cisgender community can do to support transgender rights is to get on board and support the transgender cause. Speaking to indy100, he said:

Now more than ever, allies' support is vital as there are too few of us to always make our voices heard"

www.indy100.com/article/how-the-far-right-is-attacking-the-lives-of-the-transgender-community-and-what-we-can-do-to-stop-it-8369021

@Snappity do you consider referring to trans women as biologically male to be transphobic and discriminatory according to the law?

It looks like terrorism against women speaking. They aren't going for the men that speak about them badly, who beat them, rape them or murder them, they go for women talking.

Womans Place UK have been threatened with a 'device' at the meeting place in Hastings
Thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3278892-Womans-Place-UK-meeting-threatened-with-device

Where does reality factor in?

I see no problem with reality.

If you change sex, do you need to take hormones to be the sex you change to?

If so, why? If you have actually changed sex to be the opposite?

No but any post denying that people can change sex denies the law and is transphobic

Where does reality factor in?

You might as well forbid people to deny that the Eucharist can literally become the body and blood of Christ because the Catholic church says it does.

Some people believe those things. That's fine. Forcing others to say that they're true, with zero material evidence, really is Orwellian to the point of absurd. It is impossible to change sex. No matter how you look, what hormones you have taken or surgeries you've had. It is impossible. That fact might make some people feel very unhappy, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Link to the 'We Need to Talk about Sex' event at the Jam Jar in Bristol:

www.theposieparker.com/posieparkervideos

Link to speeches at WPUK meetings:
www.youtube.com/channel/UCzFqsUqDzyXEQMJVy42NwUw/videos

Snappity is posting Gibberish.

Same erroneous statements again and again and again over multiple threads.

Pointless to engage imo, although I'm sure she's peaktransed a lot of lurkers

Here's a link to the meeting in Truro from last week, 'Let a Woman Speak'