New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

If we abide by these rules, we must be sure to report those offensive terms 'cis' and 'non-trans'. Women are women, transwomen are transwomen, the two are mutually exclusive... it's very clear.

I agree Lizzie.

I don’t think people are being silenced at all. Just asked to not use deliberately offensive terms. But that ruins too many people’s ability to make constant backhanded jabs so they are not happy.

And you know who you're doing this to protect? Men.

And who is being told to shut the fuck up? Women. The female kind.

Yes, exactly. People are trying to make it very very difficult for women to discuss women's issues. It's happening all over the place - MN is just the latest forum to fall.

The constant fog of "women can have penises too" - or "not everyone with a uterus is a woman" - this is gaslighting. This is telling us something -forcing something upon us - that is scientifically and biologically untrue.

There's no such thing as a transgendered child - the child is either male or female

What do Janice Turner and James Kirkup say about this?

Recent significant threads:

May 2nd 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3238869-Hi-Mumsnet-if-you-are-asking-feminist-women-to-consider-whether-Mumsnet-is-for-them-please-be-clear-that-the-space-we-made-here-is-for-all-of-us

April 15th 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3222471-AIBU-to-be-extremely-proud-of-Justine-Roberts-Mumsnet-right-now

Does this mean that when talking about a trans person who raped people with "her" penis, and only later transitioned while in prison, we must not refer to "her" natal sex when discussing whether or not it is ethical for "her" to go to a women's prison?
Because if Mumsnet says we don't have to, they're acknowledging it's just a bullshit, polite lie, meant to coddle transgender people's feelings, and not at all the truth.
So what is it: will Mumsnet enact the insane misogyny of forcing us to call "women" who raped females with their penis "her", or will they be horribly transphobic?
Honestly, they can't keep a foot in each boat forever. And as MUMSnet, the boat they choose probably shouldn't be the one filled with cock.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

To the barricades.

Surely we can just say Trans woman and we all know what their natal sex is?

Ok Toe, let me rephrase that to ‘when discussing transgender people in the context of women’s issues’. (Not that mumsnet users don’t simply discuss transgender issues on their own at times. Like when someone has a transgender child etc. )

Again, deliberately obtuse.

Why don't we just say that women cannot use words that make men sad. If men are sad then naughty women must stop using their words, even though they are just stating facts.

Fucking hell MNHQ.

You have truly tied yourself into an absurd knot of deceit in your aim to not give 'offence'.

And you know who you're doing this to protect? Men.
And who is being told to shut the fuck up? Women. The female kind.

That should tell you everything.

How the hell did it come to this?

I will not say people with penises are women. It's a lie.
And every one knows it.

When people are making you lie through coersion, sirens should be going off all over.

I and most of the population go around in real life, calling people by their natal sex. MN and some people can on occasion control us online, they can't in our homes and in real life.

So we have male, female and people?

Banning generic terms for TW which refer to natal sex is not even-handed. It frames the debate as people being phobic towards a group of women - trans women. If a term like TIM is used it is clear that it is not phobia like wanting to leave out French women, tall women etc but is because of the fact that they are not women at all. Sorry to see Mumsnet do this.

We can say what we like on AIBU, but let's not upset men in the feminism section

Word

Clearly Mumsnet must want us to branch out from feminism chat, and start talking about trans issues in more trafficked boards, such as AIBU and anything else which is relevant.
Do the rules apply there? (genuine question)
Also wow this is depressing.

You couldn’t have given a more perfect example of why mumsnet has to add some guidelines around basic decency when discussing transgender issues.

Women's issues. We're here to talk about women's issues.

Maryz, just to spell it out for you and other confused people:

"when talking about trans PEOPLE we aren't allowed to refer to THEM by their natal sex".

You couldn’t have given a more perfect example of why mumsnet has to add some guidelines around basic decency when discussing transgender issues.

Peoplesnet?

cf Ireland, 'people who need abortions' new legislation following referendum?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260503-Trans-Voices-For-Appeal-Complain-About-Together-For-Yes-Campaign

'people with cervixes' cancer campaigns?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3265653-At-your-cervix

'people who are parents' on birth certificates- current case in court?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3271504-Transgender-man-gives-birth-and-wants-to-be-recorded-as-babys-father