"Ireland has had self-ID for several years with no problems"

Ibi-Pippi Orrup Hedegaard is a Danish artist/activist who is doing what the ManFriday girls are doing but with less genuine motives - he is part of a collective of artists who seek to challenge "leftist propoganda" - and has defended work which equated immigration to terrorism for example. So no - not genuine although you can use him for the purposes of how would you know, nonetheless I would not want to align myself with the extreme right personally.

The lack of stats/reporting is fair comment. Also comparing stats globally difficult in any case as definitions of rape differ from the UK which is with a penis (as opposed to US which includes forced cunnilingus as rape for example), in Denmark rape has gone up since self ID but 1) because method of reporting/collating itself has changed and 2) alleged link with immigrants who are raping....there is no evidence I can find of links with the actual new self ID laws.

A previous thread was disconcerting as it basically asked for counter-arguments to the lack of evidence thus far: Given that you have self ID already in Denmark, Malta, Norway, Belgium, Ireland and Portugal you would think you would be able to find ONE case of a non-trans person exploiting the loophole. Even if the crime is reported as a woman like Davina et al, I can not believe a story has not made headlines/been exposed by anti-self ID campaigners across those six countries.

But every time I ask for one example for the above six, no one can come up with one and either cite it being entirely down to false reporting or talk about abortion rights or they provide links to Canada/US to prove the problem exists...I am not saying it doesn't but if it is as widespread as all that then surely ONE case in ONE of the SIX countries should be available to cite by now given that feminists exist across Europe.

I think the USA school case is significant, seems it may have to go to supreme court to define 'sex' and 'opposite sex':

Opinion piece by one of the female students with background including their recent failed legal challenge & hopes for future:
"I don’t have a problem sharing a bathroom with someone who identifies as transgender — provided they are the same sex I am. I do have trouble with a policy that says anyone who’s in an opposite-sex mood today can stroll in and observe me in my intimate moments — and with school officials who value the feelings of a few students more than the dignity and privacy of all those in their care.

It’s my hope that the judges who may hear our case going forward will understand that better than our school administrators have — and take more seriously their responsibility to protect girls’privacy where it should be most protected: in the girls’ room."
www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/boyertown-transgender-bathroom-lgbtq-gender-identiy-philadelphia-suburbs-20180524.html

(extract)
"A U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel took less than 20 minutes to deny an appeal by students who sought to protect their privacy rights in their public high school’s restrooms and locker rooms.

According to multiple reports, just four minutes into the plaintiff attorney’s oral argument, U.S. Circuit Judge Theodore McKee forbade him to define the words “sex” and “opposite sex,” undermining Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) attorney Randall Wenger’s ability to adequately defend his clients’ cause on reasonable grounds.

In the end, the three-judge panel took less than 20 minutes to unanimously rule in favor of the school board’s formerly unpublicized policy allowing students to use opposite sex restrooms and locker rooms based on their self-proclaimed gender identity."
www.lifesitenews.com/news/circuit-court-rules-in-favor-of-high-school-trans-locker-room-with-no-delib

R0wantrees, thank you so much.

I really feel so badly for Carrie MacFayden.

Another Canadian case:
(extract)
"In a written statement, salon owner Carrie MacFadyen said she would serve a transgender customer if she felt safe and secure in a room alone with them.

McKay said MacFadyen tried to give her an address for another salon to get her nails done, but McKay refused. She left, filed a complaint with P.E.I. Human Rights Commission and went to the media with her story.

"It is discrimination. I'm a human being. I have rights and people should know what people's rights are and if you're going to run a business you should know what rights are," said McKay.

But MacFadyen said her issue was with safety.

"It is unfortunate that the situation is being referred to as a transgender issue when the only issue is about my safety. I have absolutely no issues with transgender people and support their cause," MacFadyen said in the statement.

It goes on to say that McKay is often standing or sitting on the street where MacFadyen parks her car and that — along with the fact that McKay then showed up at her work — made her uneasy.

"Carrie works in a small private business as the only employee. Knowing that Kristen is transgender does not change the fact she does not feel safe and secure in a room alone with her, without others around. After their interaction Kristen left the business yelling which confirmed Carrie's concern," said the email.

McKay said she's speaking out because she wants other transgender people to feel comfortable to live openly. She's asking for a public apology from the salon."

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-human-rights-complaint-1.3735833

One thing we know is that no matter where the law sets the boundaries ostensibly to protect women's right there will be men who violate the laws to violate women.
The MRAs have been arguing for years that the way to reduce rape to zero is to legalize rape. That is what several countries, including Ireland, have done with regard to voyeurism laws.

The waxing salon in Canada is discussed here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3247242-Muslim-rights-vs-Transgender-rights

Off the top of my head, recently there was the waxing salon in Canada
windsorstar.com/news/local-news/transgender-woman-files-human-rights-complaint-against-windsor-spa

And in New Zealand there was a recent incident involving a women's only gym being accused of having a discriminatory policy (although I don't know if it's escalated to legal action):
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&
objectid=12060723

Current court cases in USA

Women's homeless project:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter

Schools:
www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/boyertown-transgender-bathroom-lgbtq-gender-identiy-philadelphia-suburbs-20180524.html

Canada cases?

So it is like knowing someone, whom you fail to trust, and they tell you, "But I am a woman! And I have a piece of paper to prove this! Only you are not allowed to ask for it, and forget about any right to see it!"

That's just a setup for abuse, frankly.

Kitty Klaws, the point is that there is literally no way to tell if Ibi-Pippi is "true" trans or not. There is no gatekeeping. You can't really question the fact that she is legally declared a woman if she has the paperwork. Self ID requires absolutely no supporting evidence, which means we have to just take people at their word. So it doesn't matter to me if she is "actually trans" or an "artist." The point is self-ID can be used by anyone for any reason. Ibi-Pippi might be able to sue in some situations at not being allowed into female spaces (not sure about Danish law), and I also suspect that legally you could get into trouble if you allow some trans people into your single sex space but not others.
Hypothetical example: let's pretend you let someone who looks like Laverne Cox into the women's changing room, but not someone who looks like Ibi-Pippi. In this completely made-up scenario, they're both trans women, both have self-declared female IDs, neither has had gender reassignment surgery. In any case that last part isn't relevant because you haven't set clear sex/gender reassignment criteria for the changing room and besides you aren't going to check the genitals of all your guests before they walk in.. Would you not in theory be discriminating against a subset of trans women if you don't allow someone who looks like Ibi-Pippi in, but you do allow more "passing" trans women in? The same principle would probably hold for other same-sex activities and spaces.

Daim: if a male legally declares herself a woman, enters your female changing room, exposes her penis to you but is just standing still staring at you, what are you going to object to? Are you going to complain that you were made to feel uncomfortable by this self-declared woman, who has documents to back up her perceived right to be there? Like Pratchet said, how do you even name the crime/problem, and what recourse do you have to fix it? There's also a stigma attached to speaking up for fear of being labelled transphobic.

I would like to know from our trans activist friends, actually, what the stats are for rates of violence against trans people in Ireland (or other countries) pre- and post-self-ID. I'd also be very interested to know how self-ID has affected other important data such as suicide rates. I haven't come across such numbers before. Anything that focuses on changes in violence rates in single-sex spaces against trans people would be especially appreciated. How have these numbers been affected? What's the evidence look like of objective harm reduction to trans people with a self-ID policy? Genuinely curious, so thanks very much in advance.

Any problem transwomen will be given a quiet talking to, by the men maybe the parish priest can have a word with them as well

We are always right

Daim also told us that Brighton was completely non critical , and yet the petition for Brighton went dark red the fastest!

Lap dance: how many male-bodied people does it take to destroy a female-only space? Clue: the answer is a really small number.

Daim: they can't complain: it's transphobic to complain, and that's a hate crime.

What are they going to report to police? 'A woman took her clothes off next to me in the changing room?' No crime there. How about 'A man took his clothes off next to me in the changing room' Definitely a crime there - a hate crime.

So yknow. I'm right.

And yet, they believe they should get to dictate that the language of women's reproductivehealth be gender neutral, and censor and exclude those who don't conform @Lapdanceshoeshine.

or possibly only 100 times greater. I'm not brilliant at percentages

I found out recently that when you add up the populations of all the countries which currently have self-ID, it comes to less than the current UK population

I don't know what the stats are for the rest, but the number of self ID transpeople in Ireland, as reported in a recent Guardian piece, was under 300 - 0.006% of the total population according to my calculator. (NB The piece didn't include a figure for how many transpeople there were before but still, there doesn't seem to be a significant number)

Anyway, UK trans population (not self-ID, obv) is currently estimated at c 0.5%, or 1000 times greater? So the impact on the general population isn't really comparable currently, & even less so if self-ID were allowed.

exert such control over society that the entire population turns a blind eye

I wonder why that sentence made me laugh out loud.

Okay Pratchet let's say you're right, men in Ireland are self identifying as women and exposing themselves in female bathrooms.

This travesty is happening but not being spoken about at all. It's all a cover up.

Whose interest is it in to cover it up? Not other women. If this was happening they would be complaining to the police m, writing to the media, warning their friends on social media. Men? Would you want this happening to your wife? Daughter? Sister?

Do you really think a tiny minority of trans women exert such control over society that the entire population turns a blind eye to indecent exposure in female bathrooms?

Or is it not happening?

@percyandfriends I don't recognise your idea of Ireland at all, how bizarre.

Debate isn't encouraged and most people are unaware of what the GRA really means. We have a new bunch of theocratic nutters at the helm, punishing apostates who question the woke catechism

How can there be reported incidents when incidents arent reported correctly

Eh? Eh? Answer me that

Actually dont bother

You'll just be putting it down to a vivid imagination

Daim: Are you denying that men can identify their way into female spaces and commit indecent exposure and voyeurism with impunity?

Maybe fifteen minutes. One of those.