"Ireland has had self-ID for several years with no problems"

Whoever posted about transgender people in Ireland being 'spoken to' above and made out like we were all living in a cluster of tiny little hamlets is talking shite quite frankly. The transgender population is tiny, really really small and we don't have media prominent TRAs in the same way as the UK does. The most 'noise' around the issue is found in the colleges and universities, so perhaps this will change in the coming years but the average person wouldn't have much awareness of the issues.

There have been no issues, as far as I'm aware, of someone abusing self ID laws but, again, there's very little knowledge about them. As a PP has already said, sex based exemptions exist under the law for prisons etc.

Yes batshite. They never mention sex specific spaces when they all talk about Ireland, because they know they are coming for our sex specific spaces in the rest of the UK.

They'll all say they're in favour of Equaluty Act exemptions but are lying.

Ireland has not had self ID for several years. And they also seem to have kept single sex spaces. So its not quite the same as whats being proposed in the UK.

Media have to report crimes by transwomen (or people who claim to be transwomen) as female, so there would be nothing to report really about a woman being in a changing room with other women and stripping off.

Anecdotes and personal experience will be written off as not proof.

So I think you will struggle to find any actual proof. I highly suspect the first glimpse will be when female sexual crime shoots up. Like in the UK we have female rapists all of a sudden when a female convicted for rape is generally very very very rare. From memory I think its 6 'women' done for rape in the past year? That sounds small, but its not and it will definitely affect statstics given how rare femal sex offenders actually are.

I find it sad when people say that because there is no proof of actual assault happening because of this, everything is fine. Especially when sexual assault is so underreported in the first place as women tend not to be believed or to be blamed. Taking asault ut of the equation totally..if a woman goes to the gym for example and a bloke is getting changed next to her, she won't report it but will not go back to said gym. So women will just quitely withdraw, maybe speak to friends about it but when these stories become more common, they will be written off as 'propoganda' or 'scaremongering'

Women will speak out. They will be demonized and dismissed when they do. They will be terrorized into silence or they will escape. Eventually enough will have spoken out despite the abuse that it will become a movement.
History teaches us if we are willing to learn.

Yes, there's much crowing on social media about how the woke kids chased the UK terfs away from Ireland, and pride in the fact that no-one here holds those views anyway. Eh no, you just prevented a discussion from being had, you repressive muppets, you can't actually stop people from thinking for themselves. As the Catholic church found out eventually, not that any of you remember them well enough to see the resemblance

Re Ireland's legislation supporting people who are transgender. There is currently lobbying by some groups with regards the language which will be used in new policies and laws following the referendum supporting women's rights to abortion.
discussed:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260503-Trans-Voices-For-Appeal-Complain-About-Together-For-Yes-Campaign

The use of precedent in implementing transgender policies seems key, both in sport and elsewhere.

In most interviews I have heard by those advocating for self-id in changes for the GRA (for example) the list of countries who have already done so seems always referenced.

But we don't in other areas of legislation use this as justification.
(cf my comment above re permissive gun laws)

With the regards the position that we should adopt legislation on the basis this exists in other countries.

By way of example,
(from Wikipedia)
The only countries with permissive gun legislation are: Albania, Austria, Chad, Republic of Congo, Honduras, Micronesia, Namibia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Senegal, Tanzania, the United States, Yemen and Zambia, although several other countries like Canada and the Czech Republic, despite theoretically being restrictive, are shall-issue countries.

Yet despite Donald Trump's recent suggestion, we don't have permissive gun laws in the UK.

NB I am illustrating a principle, not comparing those advocating for for transgender rights to those who support the NRA!

Daimbar
To be clear, this is what I think:

I believe the majority of people have a shared expectation of what a single-sex space or service is.

If this definition is to be changed then all stakeholders in society should be aware of this and able to consider it and contribute.

This can't be restricted to people from certain age group/ identity / educational experience / user of certain social media sites/ members of political groups etc.

To do so is to disenfranchise others.

Discussion/debate needs to be respectful and nuanced.

The OP asked if there had been any problems with self ID in Ireland (no) so why are people sharing negative stories about trans people in the US and Canada?

Daims What I have shared are examples of legal cases, reported by journalists.

The reason that they became legal cases is in itself noteworthy.

They raise a number of significant issues which I believe are important to consider. Whether they are discussed or not here would depend on the posters on the thread.

By that I mean, it would depend on which aspects of the articles people might (or not) want to comment on.

Not by someone here determining the scope of the discussion. Nor by someone here ascribing negative (& innacurate) intentions to my motivations.

And finally, definitely not by some t'interweb judge and jury mob especially one which seems to be so lacking critical thinking skills.

If there are to be changes of laws which affect society it is important to ask questions of that law.

I recommend the Nick Robinson podcasts:
'The Peter Tatchell One'
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05qj9fv

'The Paris Lees One'
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05xp3z2

Awww, SarahAr so cute:
Have you even been to Ireland? Dublin has half a million people living there. You remarks are borderline racist.

That is all you have, seriously? Straight out of the libfem textbook of deflection. Libfemmery won't make you pass, quite the opposite actually, just raises questions as to your male identification status.

And for the record, yes I have been to Dublin, and various parts of Ireland.

angry

Yes

And when youve run out of arguments???

Tone police ....and correct grammer and punctuation obviously

@midgebabe I don't think Ireland's attitude to women is"culturally very different" to the UK. Certainly there are cultural differences but we have more in common than you'd think. Sometimes the way Mumsnetters talk about the Irish like David Attenborough investigating some obscure tribe, when we're actually here in large numbers if you want to ask us anything!

Women should be seen and not heard! Preferable not seen either, honestly, might be triggering.

We could start with ''the GRA needs updating'

Don't raise your voice, improve your argument

Yes

Everyone do stop typing so loud

Gosh why on on earth would you want to emphasis something when people are putting words in your mouth...honestly!

I suspect in its attitude to women is culturally very different to the uk meaning comparisons will not necessarily translate

Have women been subject to increased levels of low level sexual intimidation and disrespect or higher levels of sexual violence? Are women changing their behaviours as a result of the changes?

Are they actually measuring this? Accurately? If not then we can say there are huge problems or no problems with equal certainty.

Having looked at such crime statistics in the past, I would say you probably need to wait 10 years for clear trends to emerge.

It was interesting that in Canada the overall levels of violence were falling strongly but sexual violence was possibly rising and at best flat. Of course there could be many reasons for that including improved reporting...or it could be that violence against women was growing

I don't care if the violence is attributed to a transperson or not. What I care about is how society is changing and if self id leads to negative changes in society.

The onus as far as I can see is for the dominant group, men, to prove that there is no increased risk to women. Not for women to prove an increased risk.

We could start with ''the GRA needs updating'

Pratchet point to anything in that thread that is factually incorrect?

Lol @ true facts

Are you in Ireland @daimbars? I could tell you some worrying stories of students unions being hijacked by groups of "queers" (mostly straight men) who have been bullying young women and trying to police their language when they talk about their bodies. This is in one college in particular which I remember as a glorious bastion of radical feminism 20-odd years ago. A great number of their toilets have been redesignated gender neutral so they don't even have that space any more.

Do you really only measure this in terms of violent assault? I'm listening to young women and very worried for them.

Someone shared this Twitter feed on another thread. It outlines the true facts really clearly

mobile.twitter.com/lgbtld/status/1004079579747835906?s=21

Nothing has happened to trans'women in male spaces. Nothing. All this shows is that you have a problem with women having their own private space.

The OP asked if there had been any problems with self ID in Ireland (no) so why are people sharing negative stories about trans people in the US and Canada?

All this shows is that when cases do occur they get reported.

But nothing has happened in Ireland. Nothing.

Anyone would think you had a problem with trans people and were trying to 'prove' how dangerous they can be.