Government response to the petition...

"At least it's clear in the way it describes trans people as identifying with a sex, not somehow becoming that sex or fudging with gender."

Unless they have a GRC. And the organisation cannot ask if people have a GRC. It's unworkable - nor are the exceptions anywhere near as sound as the Government is suggesting. I know lawyers representing trans people often bring cases under the protected characteristic of disability and there are no exemptions so exclusion would be unlawful.

The Equality Act was rushed through at the end of a Parliamentary session. It has a lot of oddities.

But even if not, the least discriminatory response, and therefore the one probably required by law, would be to make the space unisex. If that happens I, and may Y other women like me, are going to be very cross with any feminists whose campaigning brings that about.

I am not in a position to do this, I would help, is someone be up for leading a crowdfund to take Marks & Spencer and Topshop along with those that offered the training, to court for the EA2010 sex segregation, putting the dignity, privacy and safeguarding of women and girls at risk?

I wouldn't have the legal skills / knowledge to take the initiative, but I would help in whatever way I can with some sort of campaign addressing this.

*fudging with gender - fudging by using the word gender instead of sex.

I am not in a position to do this, I would help, is someone be up for leading a crowdfund to take Marks & Spencer and Topshop along with those that offered the training, to court for the EA2010 sex segregation, putting the dignity, privacy and safeguarding of women and girls at risk?

Providers may exclude trans people from facilities of the sex they identify with, provided it is a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim.

At least it's clear in the way it describes trans people as identifying with a sex, not somehow becoming that sex or fudging with gender.

Thanks for posting op.

We need to work on organisations and put pressure on them to consider women's rights to privacy and dignity and safeguarding issues as much as the feelings of trans identified males.

Agreed.

So we have one political party that doesn't believe that trans women are actual women, that they are trans identified males?

The narrative needs to change so that politicians assert the rights of women & children as well as the independence of professionals eg medical, criminal justice, eduaction and social care.

The case by case part didn't feel right though. If refuges need to justify case to case, they will waste precious resources.
Agreed. Also
Providers may exclude trans people from facilities of the sex they identify with, provided it is a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim
How will legitimate aim be justified. Who will decide? I can see that being challenged byTIMs detirmined to enter these spaces.

Any GRA reform will not change the protected characteristics in the Equality Act nor the exceptions under the Equality Act that allow provision for single and separate sex spaces.

This is good to hear. Very clear about single sex spaces and that protected characteristics will stay as 'gender reassignment' rather than 'gender identity' and 'sex' stays 'sex' rather than morphing into 'gender' (as some organisations already incorrectly state).

Thank you Amy and everyone that organised signatures.

So we have one political party that doesn't believe that trans women are actual women, that they are trans identified males?

I think that the recent reports in mainstream press mean that it would be impossible for any government to push through reforms without open consultation.

In the event of a snap general election, any indication that Labour might do so would be used against them.

Also see: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

I am concerned about what may happen if Corbyn gets in as his views are very different. Sad to say, I'm a leftie and desperately disappointed in my Party of choice!
The TRAs are also insistent that they will be going after the Equalities Act, which should not happen if the government sticks to its guns on the GRA, but may be taken on board by a different government.
However on the face of it, the government response seems to be encouraging. Time will tell, so the more that the issues are publicised, the better.

There is an important statement on WPUK website:

"I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity...

Unfortunately, in recent months the changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the incredibly toxic debate around the issue of ‘gender self ID’ has left many more women under a heavy veil of silence, particularly for those of us who work in the VAW sector. The dark, uncomfortable irony of this silence is not lost on me, nor is it lost on the many women in the sector I have recently spoken to about this issue.

As someone who has worked with many survivors of violence over the last two decades, I am terrified – both professionally and personally – about the impact of self ID on ensuring safe spaces are available to women who have experienced and are escaping male violence. Even without the legal changes to the GRA, gender inclusive policies are already happening in many areas, these changes are ahead of the law and already upon us..." continues

womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/

That's not bad. It's very fence sitty but probably better than I expected

We need to work on organisations and put pressure on them to consider women's rights to privacy and dignity and safeguarding issues as much as the feelings of trans identified males.

That, if upheld, is an OK position, I'd say. It leaves the field clear for trans people to start campaigning for better provision, where appropriate, separate from their own sex to avoid humiliation and from their identified gender to avoid the risks to the more vulnerable party.

They clearly don't. It's good to have that spelled out.

The case by case part didn't feel right though. If refuges need to justify case to case, they will waste precious resources.

So will that mean that being born male will not in itself be able to be considered as a signifier of risk?

Prisons also carry out case by case assesments, they have access to greater resources, time, ongoing assessments as well as pre-sentence reports.

Reported in The Times:
"Andrea Albutt, president of the Prison Governors Association, told The Mail on Sunday: “I have seen women feeling very threatened by transgender prisoners’ presence . . . To put men who declare they are women into women’s prisons would be very damaging.”
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269144-Prison-Governors-speak-directly-of-their-concerns-for-vulnerable-women

Sounds mostly sensible response to me. And cautious.

Agree with pp - the EA provision needs to be publicised.

The case by case part didn't feel right though. If refuges need to justify case to case, they will waste precious resources.

Providers of women-only services can continue to provide services in a different way, or even not provide services to trans individuals, provided it is objectively justified on a case-by-case basis.

'Providers may exclude trans people from facilities of the sex they identify with, provided it is a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim' needs to be publicised to schools.

From the Govt. response: "Gender recognition is a devolved issue and the Scottish Government ran a separate consultation, which closed on 1 March 2018."

There is an important current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268545-Twitter-thread-no-impact-assessments-carried-out-for-school-guidance-in-Scotland

Providers may exclude trans people from facilities of the sex they identify with, provided it is a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim' needs to be publicised to schools.

So the opposite to what Mermaids are advocating then?!?

I think this needs to be publicised everywhere where separation of the sexes is relevant. It should be sent to Swim England, to the GG, the YMCA, to local pools, to Hampstead Heath, to the Labour Party and every branch (not sure how much store they will set by Gov policy mind!) and to HR departments.