Study find trans kids thrive after early transition

So does that mean Jazz Jennings didn't transition early enough

Jazz was transed at 3yo and sadly has been struggling with depression and anxiety for many years and now has weight problems. Jazz could not have a more supportive family and friends. So I don't accept the younger the better model at all.

Personally I think everyone should endure natural puberty. No-one enjoys it but puberty matures your body and brain. Allowing many children to outgrow childhood anxieties about their bodies and concern about their sexual attraction. If left alone children will generally grow up and accept their natal sex and body.

Once their brain is fully mature, in their mid twenties, then they can decide if they would like socially transition, take hormones and get surgery.

I find it astounding that anyone is recommending that we give our children drugs designed to stunt their development, sterilise them and put then on course for a lifetime of different drugs and mutilation. How can that be a better outcome than supporting them to realise that human beings can't change sex? It can't be.

Second, this study did not focus on physical side effects of treatment.

Can’t say I’m surprised. Having actually been on these drugs, suffered for the decade since on a daily basis, unable to work, zero sex drive, truly debilitating symptoms, I’d say that assessing satisfaction with these treatments while ignoring physical side effects is deliberately misleading.

The gender dysphoria scale used in the study is not validated fully.

research.vu.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/42117774

Therefore the results of this study are inconclusive.

It's a small study, but of course, when the results are so unambiguous, they become statistically significant even with smaller studies. You can of course counter this study with more science - just find a larger study that shows the opposite.

Both inaccurate statements. The results aren't unambiguous if you read the actual full study, there are as stated several concerns with the study that they acknowledge (also the last assessment was only a year after surgery which tells us nothing about long term well-being for this group or if the improvement is caused more by the passing of time and/or therapy than the hormones and surgery, and quite a few of the P values in the study show a lack of statistical significance, I don't think I've seen one with so many less than .001s in a while), small studies are more thrown off by anomalies which is why that's so often pointed out and larger studies are preferred, and when presented articles as evidence for a something, there is no mandate that anyone counters it with another article but only to analyse the evidence as it has been presented. If your article has clear issues, it doesn't matter what anything else says...that's kinda how article reviews work.

Any article you spam others with must be able to stand on its own and should be analyzed on their own. It's no one else's job to find further research for you. Use researchgate or any of the many trans research groups if that's what you want. Why you keep thinking any one study or meta study is 'the best' I don't know, but that's not how academic research or science works and that's before getting into the politics and how many areas of related research - like detransitioners - are currently being blocked or how people are still currently fighting for all research to be accessible as there is a major issue in how a lot, some even say most, of research is tossed out.

Also, you seemed to have missed the conclusion where it states that a major factor in the success on these treatments is "a comprehensive multidisciplinary approach that attends to the adolescents’ GD as well as their further well-being and a supportive environment." The therapies that these young people were given as part of their assessments and on-going treatments are a clinically very important part of why the kids are doing well. None of them transitioned using only internet advice, none transitioned without thorough therapy. Maybe not as much as I would like, but there is nothing in the article that comes even close to claiming that early transition by itself is what makes any of these kids thrive. Overall, unconvincing.

Which scientific studies were shut down? Even if shut down there will be academic papers. Do you have links?

bowl
I don’t want to out myself but I have reasons to be v concerned about a teen related to me
Your post exactly sums up what I feel

"Do they ever mature in the way adults are supposed to mature? Puberty is for brain development as well."

Talk to people who have been in that position and they can tell you themselves

I should imagine it will be tough to find much concrete data to prove the opposite as research that might conceivably challenge your narrative is actively being blocked, so for example:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41384473

What has happened is people like you have attacked academia as if this is a settled question, only permitting research that suits your agenda. The only stuff we're likely to see for a while is stuff that suits your talking points.

That isn't science btw, at least not really. It's propaganda, and there is historical precedent if you really want to get into the weeds with this:

www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-the-soviet-union-chose-the-wrong-side-on-genetics-and-evolution-23179035/

Personally were I to be on your side of the debate I would be twice as critical of whatever 'science' my side produces, as I would want to make damn sure I'd gotten my ducks in a row before going for my gotcha moment on a forum full of my opponents.

At the present moment the extreme trans activist side present a distinctly anti-rational bias. Any natural and healthy skepticism should be embraced, not just lumped in as simple transphobia. I'd be happy to see more science done in this area, but unless you join me in the condemnation of the shutting down of scientific enquiry, then I don't think you have any right to claim the evidence and scientific based moral high ground.

trumpdump, which doctors are recommending those things?

How do people who were sterilised as children manage as adults?

Do they ever mature in the way adults are supposed to mature? Puberty is for brain development as well.

"There should, however, be much more high-quality counselling available, rather than kids getting 'support' on the internet from adults looking back with rose-tinted glasses."

For a very different perspective, talk to some people who transition between 18 and 21 whose parents refused to allow blockers.

@Wakame and @GibbertyFlibbert

Since you appear to think it's okay for kids to transition, do you also think it's okay for pre-pubescent children to vote, get a tattoo, have piercings, have cosmetic surgery, or take recreational drugs?

If not, why not?

Dr Polly Carmichael has been one of the speakers at today's event:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

Comments on the content of her speech from Twitter #WSPFEvents. I believe a full transcript of speeches may be available later.

"These children will never be fertile, never go through correct puberty, and will retain pre pubescent features. They will never have a sex life. Their future risk of cancer, osteoporosis and diabetes will increase."

Factual nonsense.

Fertility - Sperm and ova can be banked. Surrogacy is just as possible as it is for any gay couple and womb transplants etc are already in medical trials.

Puberty - the whole point is that they will go through the correct puberty for them, rather than the incorrect one. They are taking charge of their own bodies - something which has been a basic tenet of feminism for decades. They will therefore not retain pre-pubescent features.

They will be very capable of having a full sex life if they want.

On hormones, the change in osteoporosis risk is small and might even be decreased. There is no known link to diabetes.

Cancer is more complex because the risk is a trade off between prostrate and breast cancer, one increasing while the other decreases.

Anyway, children don't 'decide' to go through puberty, their body does. It can be a very traumatic time for many children. That's why a loving, supportive approach is vital. Supportive doesn't have to mean medicalisation.

I see that one of the ‘non-participating’ transwomen from the original group of 70 wasn’t part of the follow-up because she died as a direct result of surgery.

I think that until there is a way to distuingish between children with full-on, lifelong true dysphoria (a very small percentage) and children who have short-term issues which will resolve as they mature, there should be no medical interventions on children. There should, however, be much more high-quality counselling available, rather than kids getting 'support' on the internet from adults looking back with rose-tinted glasses.

And is there a third type of human gamete?

It's like being in grounding day and this ......

I am going to propose that no one else answers this thread ... Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board... has done it before and is doing it again....Really great that Bowl has pasted one cogent response - Let's not add any more

"Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board"

This isn't an echo chamber.

People are entitled to post studies regardless of whether they support or challenge the general consensus of this forum.

It's then up to people whether they feel those studies are compelling evidence or not, but that's another topic entirely.

We should rename wakame whac-a-mole.

I am going to propose that no one else answers this thread ... Wakame is aiming to derail a Feminist Chat board... has done it before and is doing it again....Really great that Bowl has pasted one cogent response - Let's not add any more