No True Transwoman - transadvocates question whether TW is 'genuine' after said TW sexually harasses women in homeless shelter

I keep seeing Morgane Onger's involvement.

YY. Didn't someone say Oger was claiming to be advising the UK government? Was that green ink letters to Theresa May, or genuinely acting in some kind of advisory capacity?

I keep seeing Morgane Onger's involvement.

Challenging Andrew Gilligan's reporting of UK transgender prison statistics:
twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1001830695466041344
(discussed)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee

Vancouver Rape Relief & FGM
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1000066518170746880.html
(extracts)
"The president of the BCNDP which is the political party in power in the province right now, Morgane Oger, has proudly continued the campaign to end Vancouver Rape Relief's work to heal survivors of male violence, calling the org a "private hate club."

"Yesterday, Oger told a survivor of female genital mutilation that her insistence that the mutilation happened due to her sex, not gender, was an excuse to be transphobic since the survivor insisted biological sex is relevant to women's oppression."

See Jana Cornel's twitter:
twitter.com/RadfemJana

I think this was the first time I heard of Onger:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146926-I-am-this-woman

"Morgane had this to say."

Ogre is absolute filth. Comes up with some of the most vile shit.

My point is, I was wondering if the shelter would act differently if the perpetrator was biologically female, would there be extra supervision? Would she be banned from the shelter all together?
They wouldn’t be telling the others to accept her as a women as that doesn’t make sense. They would have to do something to protect the others as otherwise they would be failing in their duty of care. If there was persistent in-shower bullying and sexual harassment by women would they really just say to the others “put up and shut up?” If yes, that’s dreadful and they are failing. If no, then why is it ok when the perpetrator is a man? When as you agree it’s much more intimidating and higher risk.

Firstly my heart goes out to the women suffering sexual harassment.

It is not clear to me whether the staff are being negligent or they are hamstrung by the laws in the state. However, in England and Wales the laws are different and there are a lot of actions they could take.

Prima facie it sounds like the transwoman is committing the offence of voyeurism. They should call the police.

They could exclude her from the shelter. They would treat a non-transwomen in this way so it would not be discrimination to exclude her.

Or they could take action against her, which might be discriminatory, as long as it is proportionate as this is allowed under the Equality Act.

And if legal self id comes in with a reformed GRA nothing would change.

From time to time people misbehave in shelters and need to be dealt with robustly by the staff.

I would think that 'training' people to identify who is 'genuinely' transgender is an impossibility!

It's certainly not something you can do with sufficient reliability. Psychiatrists are well practised at identifying people with genuine psychiatric disorders. I'm sure they could weed out a few. BUT actual GD sufferers are only some of trans people. So is this person implicitly agreeing that AG is not "true" trans?

It wouldn't have a high success rate, anyway. An AG person could undoubtedly learn the "right" answers to give to pass an assessment in most cases. And really, what is going to be done if they fail? Sorry - you can't legally change your sex but this other person can?

How would the house deal with a biological woman that intimidated and harassed others in the shower? What are the standards of conduct for all people there?

The risk of this is lower and a lot of good practices aren't about perfection, they're about minimising risk. Secondly, rape victims especially are probably much less comfortable confronting a large, sexually predatory man than they are dealing with unwanted come ons from a woman. Finally, groups of women tend to have their own ways of managing an unwanted sexual suitor in the group who is female. A disturbed man sharing physical space is not part of the in-group but an out-group. There's logic to your point but the practical reality is that this scenario is more common than yours and sex segregation is an easy, practical and sensible way to reduce this.

I'm a straight guy. Put me in a shower full of women and chances are I'm going to want to have sex with them.

So what if one of the workers at the shelter thought they had identified a 'fake' trans person? What could they possibly do about this, when it is being made illegal and is social/political/employment suicide to ask questions or disbelieve someone about their self-identity?

What is the point of training someone to spot a fake when they have no way of doing or saying anything about it?

Now, now AAK. We women shouldn't be asking questions like that - we should just submit to men and their feelings.

Wow.That tweet by Morgane Oger is jaw-droppingly ignorant and insensitive on all levels.

The narcissism of TRAs is boundless.

Morgane has asked all of them, then? There was a poll done?

I came here to post exactly about that but I see I've been beaten to it so I'll just add I had a protracted argument with Morgane Oger, an NDP candidate in BC and MtF trans, about this on Twitter yesterday. The subject was how his friend Kimberly Nixon (also a MtF trans) sued a women's shelter in Vancouver costing them $100,000 in legal fees because they wouldn't let him be a rape counsellor.

Morgane had this to say.

Women - Complain about a male person in their space making them feel uncomfortable while they're naked

Male person - I would like to confirm that the situation works perfectly for me and I'm not uncomfortable at all!

Media - Well I guess that's OK then

It's obviously a non-starter, not to mention that there are transgender community leaders who have been committed of horrible crimes - if you get assaulted in a women's shelter it makes no difference to the victim whether that person was assaulted by a genuine transgender pervert or a fake transgender pervert.

This.

TerfsUp, Well it’s just a guess, but these are very vulnerable women were talking about. Which why it’s so bloody outrageous that they are subjected to more bullying and harassment in what is supposed to be a safe space.

Ah. Thanks, @StringandGlitter. That seems a reasonable explanation to me.

I would think that 'training' people to identify who is 'genuinely' transgender is an impossibility!

That's true, too.

I think that "training" people to identify who is 'genuinely' transgender is a huge mistake.

All that it would take would be one mis-identification and the resulting storm would be epic. And, of course, the trainer wouldn't be liable but the shelter would.

I would imagine the showing in groups is either suicide, self-harm or drugs prevention.

Another example of women having to cede private space to TRAs.

I wonder what the having to shower in groups regulation is / was about. Can anyone enlighten me on this?