ManFriday article in the Daily Mail

That was a really good article.

I thought Debbie spoke a lot of sense.

“some people are more open to the voices of transwomen than those of women”

Definitely.

@Poppyred85 I am definitely one of the boys today!

Link to the petition:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

“When your allies are the DM, the Catholic Church and David Davies MP - you have to seriously consider if your views are correct.”

Absolutely fair point and I do wonder about this.
I think that -unfortunately-people campaigning for trans rights with the best of intentions forgot that there was another, larger, disadvantaged group.because this group is always there it doesn’t come into public focus in the way a colourful minority does.

Whoever spread the idea that wondering about the impact on women and girls was “erasing” or being violent has a lot to answer for.

Did you see Debbie's point upthread about sef-ID moving cultural norms so that it becomes expected to see someone of the opposite sex (but of the same self-ID gender) in single-sex spaces?

Women have made this point over and over to Sarah on this board. Sarah is aware.

That's an excellent article. And I also salute the bravery of our ManFriday activists. Most of us couldn't do what you're doing.

And Trans rights orgs are wanting to remove all single sex exclusions under the equality act, which is nice 🙄

The Guardian has gone right down

I thought the recent Guardian article about how best to support pupils had balance. The comments underneath showed a breadth of views too.
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

It's worrying, having read the article, that some TRAs have lobbied to shut down the crowdfunder for Transgender Trend School's pack.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3265524-Transgender-Trend-Crowdfunder-suspended

It won’t allow Men in? What like Girl Guides you mean ? Stop lying SarahAr, orgs are pre-empting the new GRA and already ARE allowing self-id, but only for Males it seems.

In fact I hope you don't mind but I have screenshotted your post and will print it out and put it on the wall as the first example I have ever seen of ANY transactivist admitting that there might be a valid concern about self identified men having a legal right to enter women's spaces as per the EA 2010.

SarahAr you seem very certain on what wil and won’t be allowed if the GRA changes. I think many of us would feel differently if it was clear that self-Id will not allow men who self ID into female sex segregated spaces. Perhaps you could share your source on that so we can read it for ourselves? Or perhaps you believe TWAW and therefore they won’t be men identifying into female sex spaces as they’re it men they’re women?

Tbf, the Daily Mail has gone up in my estimation ever since this whole self-Id things kicked off.

The Guardian has gone right down

Given everything we know about the Guardian and the Daily Mail, perhaps the Guardian has got it right? Or who knows. Perhaps this is the Daily Mail's once in twenty years Stephen Lawrence moment - the one campaign which continues to cancel out year on year racism, mostly recently against migrants.

When your allies are the DM, the Catholic Church and David Davies MP - you have to seriously consider if your views are correct.

Sarah,
I do take your point but the notion of self-identification seems to have changed the trans culture in an unpleasant way.

Anyway, good that you agree there is a debate to be had. I think there is too. The idea of no debate was a bad thing.

There is a debate to be had over whether giving self-identifying men the legal right to enter sex segregated spaces is a good thing

Well done, that's the first time I have seen you admit that. Let's have a debate about changing the way the Equality Act is worded so this is no longer the case then.

From the article

She and her 160 or so fellow Man Friday activists balk against enshrining in law changes that would allow self-identifying men into female spaces such as single-sex hospital wards, changing rooms, loos, refuges and prisons.

This is a great example of the misleading and vociferous campaign against transgender people in the (far) right wing press. And also of the misleading aims of Man Friday.

The proposed changes to the GRA will not give self-identifying men (or even self-identifying transwomen) the legal right to enter sex segregated spaces.

There is a debate to be had over whether giving self-identifying men the legal right to enter sex segregated spaces is a good thing. There is no debate to be had over whether the government's proposed reforms would enable this - they won't.

Great article.

I'd share it on my (decidedly hostile to GC views) Facebook, but it's the Daily Mail.

They couldn't talk anyone I know into getting out of a burning car! Damn my woke echo chamber social media.

Still, excellently explained. Pleasantly surprised by the DM.

Shame about that Jane Fae talking about a 'ratcheting up of violence'. Usual TRA crap.

I doubt most readers of the Mail will buy those accusations.

Tbf, the Daily Mail has gone up in my estimation ever since this whole self-Id things kicked off.

The Guardian has gone right down.

I posted this on the other ManFriday/Hampstead thread, but I'll repeat here:

DH commented on the new article's headline, which he said spelled things out surprisingly clearly and at some length. I said it was probably deliberate because so many people had just skimmed the headline of the last one & then posted comments showing they'd completely missed the point.

"It's a good article. Sad that it's in the Daily Fail."

Better than having it behind a paywall or website with little traffic.

Wow, 2500 words is a generous amount of space, not your usual 20 photos and three paragraphs.

Shame about that Jane Fae talking about a 'ratcheting up of violence'. Usual TRA crap.

It's a good article. Sad that it's in the Daily Fail.

Brilliant article - well done. The comments and votes show the public are supportive of your stand :) All very positive. I applaud your courage.