A Beginners Guide to the Transgender Debate - A Signpost to Useful Mumsnet Threads

likeacrow

Sorry you were fronted off. You were waddling like a duck so we thought you were a duck claiming to be a crow. Happy to be wrong.
We are all a bit tense and quick to snap in this the third month of the current MRA/TRA invasion.

@LaSquirrel

I don't know, or care, who you think you are, but I've got fuck all to "prove" to you.

I've just as much right to post on MN as you and (referring to your previous comment to me) you don't get to assign me to any "troll bin". You're not the fucking mumsnet police.

The thread I commented on caught my eye because it was active at the time. I've read a few posts about feminism/transactivism before and been interested but not commented or asked questions despite wanting to find out more and feeling quite conflicted about the issue.

I clearly chose the wrong thread to dive in, and get that. I'm also now much clearer on what the issues are re self ID thanks to other posters pointing me in the direction of links, threads etc, without the unnecessarily aggressive tone you seem to be relishing taking with me.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped mentioning me now please.

I am just bumping this, for @likeacrow.
FFS, this thread was still on the first page, no excuse not to find it.

Prove you ain't a sealion.

Break it down for me
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

And I guess someone wants us to ignore the news about Bradley;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos?msgid=79800741

Someone who exposes themselves, plays with their penis and posts photos online, and makes images of child abuse is not my sister.

Its OK to have acceptable standards of behaviour.
Behaviour may be on a continuum, but sexual abusers are not my sisters. I won't facilitate them, I won't enable them, I won't make excuses for them.

'Real world feminism' that excludes women right here who are being harmed by the ideology that a brain can have a sex but a penis cannot is a sham.

But the bumps are useful

Feel free to start any number of other threads.

Gosh. What a tawdry and depressing thread. Truly sackcloth. Come on sisters who are not seeking to divide women against each other. Let’s hear it for sisterly solidarity, cis and trans united against......Well now, let me see, what threats do we women face? What about the Tory cuts, that hit us out of all proportion? What about the limits on abortion rights, that the alt right US friends of the identity deniers would like to introduce over here? What about the threat to the rights of our European sisters that could flow from a Tory Brexit? How’s about we indulge in a little real world feminism here, and drop the obsession with other women’s knickers? Ok?

Thanks for the links, it's really handy to have all of them on one thread

cheers banger

Not tonight I’m not

Thank you! Will check out the books (and the documentary)

I thought this was a pretty good “beginners” thread, lots of clear explanation

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Oh yes that documentary is great!

Sheila Jeffreys has written some good stuff, especially critiquing queer theory which underpins much of transgender ideology.

She's written a book specifically about trans issues and feminism "Gender Hurts". I haven't read it yet though. I have read "Unpacking Queer Politics" and "Beauty and Misogyny" which has a section on trans. Very enlightening.

Thanks for this, I lurk in the backgrounds, like a bat of the feminist section, it’s been a learning experience! So having a beginners guide type thing of the threads to read is helpful!

On a slightly related note does anyone know/recommend if there are any books that cover this topic of trans and feminism (or even feminism books in general tbh) that they would recommend to me?

ALittleBitOfButter

Yes I saw 1 or 2 cases of a 'transwoman' in a Scottish prison who may have been taking the piss or even abusing the system. Visually and physically men and by all accounts behaving like men. I've no problem with transgender people in general and have met some in real life, all male to female, but at some point you have to ask why prisons are sex segregated and whether an inmates say so or objective assessment of their transition is more important. Kind of changed my view on transgender issues.

FFS! I’ve just trawled through this lesbian subreddit
www.reddit.com/r/LesbianActually/comments/8h5sw8/my_sexualityorientation_is_towards_biological_sex/

Poor woman was being blasted for apologetically saying that she didn’t want to have sex with transwomen but was scared to say so for fear of being seen as transphobic.

And her fears were realised because she was attacked, branded as a TERF (like that’s a bad thing?!) and she just kept...apologising. Poor thing. She needs to get herself over here where people don’t take shit from TRAs and argue back..

Bloody hell. It IS all about sex. So we have Incels hating women for not having sex with them and now Transincelists hating .. well women... for not having sex with them!

I can’t ever imagine a band of angry women banding together and demanding men have sex with them. Some men people are so entitled.

There was one quite short and startling one where someone had dug unto the Scottish prisons process - it deemed anything other than immediate affirmation as transphobic bigotry. Hence the appalling violent men in the Scottish women's prison. ..