Please do Scottish self-id consultation (even if not Scottish)

That Fair Play for women guide is brilliant! I'm going to try and get the consultation done this month, and that will be a huge help

Please support
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3161638-To-call-to-all-You-have-less-than-a-month-Please-act-now-to-protect-womens-rights?watched=1

This is another fab guide, not sure if it's been posted yet:
fairplayforwomen.com/scottish-consultation/

I second what Sillydoggy says above. England, Wales & NI this is your consultation too so please complete it.

There was a post earlier today which links to an excellent guide for completing the consultation. Well worth a read.

post: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160915-The-GRA-and-Womens-Rights-suggestions-on-how-to-respond

direct to guidance: leyaterra.wordpress.com/2018/02/06/gender-the-gra-and-womens-rights/

Just doing it now but blimey it is giving me the rage...

Keep putting reminders on every thread?

SillyDoggy I totally agree, it is important as many people as possible respond to the Scottish consultation. How do we get the word out?and that it will have a knock on effect on England too? It's pretty low on the agenda for most people.

I am unashamedly trying to get this back on the front page. Do all of you England and Wales people who are still waiting for your consultation realise that this could be the only one you get? If Scotland allows self ID (very likely despite our best efforts) and they allow other countries ( yes in Scotland politics speak that means England and Wales) to use their system ( that is in the consultation) and Uk govt ratifies Scotland’s GRC (which will happen) then there will be no need for a controversial UK consultation it will all be done by the back door. Trans people from England and Wales will sign up for a Scottish GRC and you will have lost your rights without being asked. If you want a say fill in the Scottish consultation and tell them about the impact of their policy on women in the rest of the UK! Go for it, it might be the only say you get.

It would be great if someone could put together GC guidance for completing this consultation as I think mentioned above.

I have struggled to wade through the questions and the report. Given up and aim to respond when brain is working a little better.

Equal Recognition Scotland have very comprehensive guidance as to how they recommend folk respond to the consultation. equalrecognition.scot/consultation/

Thanks for the reminder. Good recent article in the Evening News (local Edinburgh paper): www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/susan-dalgety-my-problem-with-men-who-self-identify-as-women-1-4677359

I'm going through the consultation. What I have difficulty with is the lack of clarity how self id will effect the right to privacy of ones gender history in certain circumstances. Someone with a GRC under the current system can more reasonably expect their trans status kept private where there is an occupational requirement eg. women carers for women. Similarly if working in a church with extreme views on gender reassignment. Some will disagree with those as well, but they are disagreeing with the current law as set in 2004, not self id itself. How such exemptions would work under self id remains open to much more debate.

My other difficulty is with non binary people. Assuming an NB person retains the physical and hormonal characteristics of the gender assigned at birth, what use will hiding any sort of gender from their records do. It seems purely a matter of feelings and not fitting fully either gender role, which is fine but hardly worth legislating for imo.

It helps if you think of gender identity as a belief system, similar to religion. It's based on feelings and belief, not biology. It's also not compulsory to believe in gender identity yourself, and to be gender critical instead. I don't identify with anything either. I am a woman, because I'm an adult human female, that's all. Nothing else.

Thank you AssassinatedBeauty that does help.

Although also more confused (generally by this whole parellel universe) as i dont "identify as a woman" i am just a human female

It's referring to gender identity, not sex. Non-binary means you don't identify as either/just a man/woman. So something in between, something different, a mixture of both, nothing at all etc etc. Does that make sense in the context you're looking at it?

Not sure if this is better here or if it should be a new thread but anyway...

Help! I am at the non binary bit & utterly confused? Is this intersex or just random I dont feel like a man or a woman? Humans are binary I dont understand how we can suddenly have a whole new sex?

I mean i dont understand the questions i suppose

@MarSeeAh I meant to come back to your post. I don't know how church organisation works but please do all you can to pass upwards the views of your church members and to make sure it's all documented.

this was a hugely complex issue - about which the majority of those voting knew very little

My main response to the consultation was that this is a hugely complex issue and I don't believe anybody has a handle on what's going on, not even those proposing legal changes. We're going through a period of extremely rapid, extreme change and it's therefore a very bad time to be making laws around it.

It might be good for someone to start a thread in philosophy/religion about this consultation for those who want to respond from a faith based position or through their place of worship.

Also, is there anything on the Scotsnet topic?

Bump. 26 days left to do this

Vegecook, Topshop Travis is a man some days and a 15 year old girl other days. On the days he's a girl he goes to the women's, obviously.

I presume on the days he's a man he goes to the men's, but who knows [baffled]

I've still not managed to finish it. It's making me so angry.

IMO, to the toilet of their sex, or if they are uncomfortable with this then a gender neutral one (eg disabled)

Done

Wherever they like, I assume. Which of course is totes reasonable and not at all taking the piss.

(Sorry, had to do it.)

I'm trying to fill it out but have a question which doesn't stop me but is now bugging me. Where do non-binaries go to the toilet?

The young woman who proposed it later said to me that I was wrong about biology being a material reality and gender a social construct and that it was actually the other way about.

How do you reason with people like this? Biological sex is an observable fact and every culture in the world observes it and creates social categories based on it. The fact that what the social categories require of the people in them varies is what tells us that that part is the social construct.

I'm a parish minister in one of the denominations which was sent the consultation document. I've been speaking about this in church over the past two Sundays - the first Sunday preaching in my own two churches, then last Sunday I happened to be leading in worship in two other churches. I've also shared the link to the Consultation along with the Sages factsheet and the Transgender Trend website to about 100 members of my own churches. Most people were unaware of this, and certainly of the extent of it, and the impact it's having on women's rights and the welfare of children.

My denomination are preparing guidance for congregations on welcoming transgender and gender non-conforming people in our churches. This came about as a motion at a national level, and I opposed it at the time, saying among other things that although we should always be welcoming, that this was a hugely complex issue - about which the majority of those voting knew very little - and that we should take time to learn more, particularly about the harms which might arise. The motion carried. The young woman who proposed it later said to me that I was wrong about biology being a material reality and gender a social construct and that it was actually the other way about.

I'm interested to know how my denomination at national level respond to the Consultation, and intend to try to find out who is preparing the response.

Meantime, I have people at a local level concerned and engaged.