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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So how do we fight the misleading guidance that is eroding the Equalities Act?

41 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/01/2018 08:38

I know we are already fighting the battle on too many fronts, but one thing that seems particularly insidious is the undermining of the legal sex based exceptions in the Equalities act eg recently

  • Swimming pond
  • TIM trying to perform smear test
  • TIMs on female wards in hospitals
  • TI children in schools / guides etc

These organisations, as far as I can tell, are all going against the Equalities act with complete impunity - I presume they are being advised by TRAs?

This is legislation that already exists to protect women's spaces - why is it not being used?

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nauticant · 15/01/2018 08:39

But as cases to date have shown, when there are two 'competing' protected characteristics, it is the one who feels they are being denied access that defines his the other can present itself in the public arena.

Self-identification isn't a protected characteristic. The problem here is people looking at this as though the proposed amendments to the GRA 2004 have already been made.

Your argument based on two 'competing' protected characteristics is a non-starter.

Materialist · 15/01/2018 08:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/01/2018 12:45

I definitely think strategic legislation is the way to go

It certainly sounds like it could be quite an efficient way of doing things.

But we will need to be much better organised.

And there's the rub...

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Nineteenagain · 14/01/2018 12:00

Awful. Poor woman. Being on a psyc ward is traumatic enough when you are very vunerable without any extra considerations having to be made.

Betti935 · 14/01/2018 11:51

Maybe this is how the NHS is saved - Make women feel so uncomfortable and unsafe using it that you only have to provide treatment for 50% of the population.

Betti935 · 14/01/2018 11:47

I posted this in AIBU but I think it's a good test case. The woman in question has already gone public and is still suffering a disadvantage because she no longer feels able to access NHS treatment when she has relapses:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3138989-To-be-absolutely-raging-that-womens-rights-and-well-being-count-for-absolutely-nothing

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 14/01/2018 10:38

On what basis are transgender people 'the most disadvantaged'?

SuburbanRhonda · 14/01/2018 10:23

The more disadvantaged group (in this case transgender people) is likely to get the greater protection in law.

But how do you measure “disadvantage”?

LangCleg · 14/01/2018 09:59

I definitely think strategic legislation is the way to go.

But we will need to be much better organised.

meditrina · 14/01/2018 09:36

Yes, I think there will be test cases.

But as cases to date have shown, when there are two 'competing' protected characteristics, it is the one who feels they are being denied access that defines his the other can present itself in the public arena.

So Jew, Muslims and some Christians have had to alter how they live publically in accordance with their beliefs, because they cannot refuse goods and services to homosexuals (even in well-supplied sectors, where there is no question that alternative supply would be anything other than abundant).

So I expect that any legal challenge on this would come out much the same way. The more disadvantaged group (in this case transgender people) is likely to get the greater protection in law.

Remember, one reason for lack of traction in public policy on this is that it is being formulated with regard to the transgender population as a whole, not a few criminal outliers.

PencilsInSpace · 14/01/2018 09:31

Well they wouldn't 'find themselves' at the centre of a test case but they could agree to be claimants in a test case IYSWIM. It's a big ask because it would be a very public thing to do.

jeaux90 · 14/01/2018 09:27

If you have donated to the gofundme site Jennifer is going to run a poll on the best use of the funds. She wants ideas. Apart from the obvious challenge to the LP to define terms.

guardianfree · 14/01/2018 09:24

PencilsinSpace
So a school who implements the NAHT's transgender guidelines where women teachers who are told to 'go elsewhere' when a self ID TiM demands to use the female toilets, could find themselves at the centre of a test case.
I'd also donate to something like that.

guardianfree · 14/01/2018 09:20

I would hope that the current fund raising effort to mount a legal challenge against the Labour party is a start and will give an impetus to start challenging elsewhere,
I also think that there's a significant shift in terms of publicity and this IS starting to highlight the nature of some of the delusional aspects of this cult - and also their techniques they use to silence women are being highlighted - and it's not a good look.
And yes, in the absence of any political party that can represent women, I suspect we are going to have to 'crowd fund' legal challenges.

PencilsInSpace · 14/01/2018 09:16

Strategic litigation. I haven't got round to reading this guide yet but it looks very useful from the blurb.

We would need cases to be brought by people personally affected in each situation. A few of those with enough publicity would prompt organisations to rewrite their guidance. I'm not sure just writing to the orgs would achieve much unless it was a 'letter before action' - i.e. change your guidance or our client will see you in court.

Anywhere this is happening in the public sector (hospitals, schools, council run leisure facilities etc.) we could also use the public sector equality duty but again, I think we need people who have been personally affected to bring cases.

So we need brave people to be test cases and lots of money. I'd be happy to donate.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 14/01/2018 08:40

Sorry, another thought, it struck me that a good use of money might be to fund lawyers to write to these orgs and point out what the actual law says - IANAL but surely the Equalities act actually means something?

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