Follow on thread III - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

If we are going to have in legislation that anyone who identifies as female can have access to female spaces isnt this just the same as saying all males can have access to female spaces

I don't know why they aren't just honest and say that what they want is an end to sex segregation, as thats whats being asked for. That way people can make up their own mind and will not be swayed by the image of a post op transsexual person...when such a person is very rare in the movement as it stands today. Everyone I speak to about this is fine with the idea of post-op people using the spaces associated with the sex they are mimicking. They cannot comprehend this idea that today dysphopria is not a necessary requirement and that some idiots say their penises are female and such.

I suggest you find something more edifying to do than being a GF on feminism chat threads.

If we are going to have in legislation that anyone who identifies as female can have access to female spaces isnt this just the same as saying all males can have access to female spaces - is my teenage daughter really going to approach a 50 year old man going into the ladies toilet and ask if they self id as female?? Despite no external appearances of being a sterotypical female - whatever one of those is ??

I suggest you leave the comparisons well alone. It's seriously dodgy ground.

I am saying that a tiny minority of men are paedophiles and we accept that there are restrictions on all men because of that minority. I see no reason why there should not be restrictions on all transwomen because of the actions of a tiny minority. Men accept it-why can't transwomen?

"BertrandRussell are you actually saying trans women are as threatening to other women as paedophiles are to children? "
No, I'm not.

I don't want to be on this thread any more than you want me here but if someone tags me in a post at 11.25pm on Christmas Eve accusing me of being a pedophile sympathiser I am going to come back and defend myself. I don't mind saying it put me right off my mulled wine when I read that yesterday.

A simple apology from SpartonDregs and RogueBiscuit would be the decent thing to do and would mean I would leave you all alone.

Perfectly is not posting in good faith and never has been.

'irrational bigotry' is a mechanism designed to provoke outrage.

Tedious tactics.

I'm afraid that it is you being irrational perfectly.

The women on this board know the debate well. They continue to patiently debate and discuss because they know there are lurkers and they know that they will enlighten them to the madness of trans activism.

Over and over and over again.

You saying that there is "irrational bigotry" is just as nonsensical as thinking that a human being can change sex. Believing it does not make it true, no matter how often you shout or throw insults.

Sorry.

Except Justine Greening has postponed the GRA consultation precisely because the government is now aware how the erosion of women's rights has started to happen.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3120473-Times-article-Greening-delays-plans-to-reform-GRA

Thanks Assigned - but as I pointed out, the lurkers who peak trans after basing their opinions on what they read on Mumsnet are embarrassing the feminist movement by writing to their MPs with irrational bigotry. See example below:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3118046-Had-a-reply-from-my-MP-re-GRA-head-is-spinning-S-O-S

perfectly

Datun good for you, and if you stand by the comparisons of LGBT with pedophilia I wish you the best of luck.

When what I actually said was.

"It's not that LGBT support paedophilia, it's that paedophiles are trying to inveigle their way in to LGBT."

Such a silly way to argue perfectly.

We can read perfectly and you are being rather pathetic. But do carry on, as there are plenty of lurkers for you to peaktrans

Datun good for you, and if you stand by the comparisons of LGBT with pedophilia I wish you the best of luck.

i thought br was making the point that even though paeodophiles are a minority of men - we still ensure that there are checks in place ie sex offenders register \ dbs to minimise harm. therefore why is it women cant have similar protections if a bilogical male is entering a female domain where privacy and dignity and safety as miniorty of those males trans, Self ID or not will be entering that space to carry out offending behaviour

I really have no idea why anyone is still engaging with perfectly at this stage. At best, his/her posts are a distraction, at worst they are an attempt to entice MNetters into making statements that can be used out of context to label MN as transphobic and so argue that our views are those of bigots and should be disregarded. Let's wise up.

perfectly

You can try and dig your way out as much as you like but everything written over the past few days is there to see in black and white. Any journalist who picks it up will have a field day.

Your incriminating and unsubtle attempts to generate gotcha moments and/or pounce on anything you can spin is really tedious. And obvious.

The women here have been talking about this for years. Their arguments are unassailable. And they are fairly uniform. As anyone can see. There are no gotcha moments to be had.

All these comments about 'now people can really see what you like' are showing up your agenda.

Let them see. It's a public forum. Anyone can come and look.

Quickly coming in to thank those voices of reason who repeat facts over and over and over as though someday the naysayers will understand.

I don’t know how we’ve found ourselves in a reality in which people argue passionately that it is possible to change biological sex, that women only spaces are offensive to those who would claim to be female but are not, and that gender divisions are so important that anyone stepping across the invisible pink/blue divide must actually have been born in the wrong body rather than just happening to enjoy something that stereotyping says they should not.

I find it interesting that a tiny minority of men are pardophiles, but we have imposed pretty strict measures to ensure that that tiny minority have no access to children, and men, by and large understand the need for those measures. But any suggestion that vulnerable women might need protection from a tiny minority of transwomen are met with horror.

How is this not comparing the 'danger' of trans women to the danger of pedophiles?

That's not what she said.

BertrandRussell are you actually saying trans women are as threatening to other women as paedophiles are to children? Because that's what it sounds like and that is precisely why this thread is becoming a joke.

Misquoting people does have the effect of making it look as though people are ignorant and bigoted, yes.

well said bertrandrussell

You do you, perfectly.