Girlguides now in on the act

MrsKCastle it might have been nationwide but I can assure you it wasn't where I lived. The only way I could get my son into Beavers was to become one of the leaders, he jumped the waiting list then as they needed a leader and I wasn't going to do it if he couldn't go.

The good thing about Scouting is that all kids are accepted and this isn't an issue.

Why is the issue with Muslim girls or any girls whose parents aren't comfortable with mixed groups more important than the same issue for boys whose parents preferred a single sex group?

There was obviously a demand for girls to join scouts or we wouldn't have any female scouts. As I stated earlier guiding was in decline in my area and girls joining scouts has accelerated that.

Agree Norah - I don't mind my daughter (11-yr-old) going on camp in a mixed group. They went on a night hike last week with the Scouts. But I don't want her sharing a shower etc with a biologically male child - she'd hate it, for one. She's very self conscious of her developing body.

I don't think we can complain tbh.
We live in an equal society and that means not segregating on sex or gender.
Maybe there used to be some sense in stopping boys from wearing girls clothes and treating them differently, we all knew where we stood then.

If guides accepted both would there be an issue? Where you all complaining when boys lost the opportunity to have a male organisation? I don't believe it was because there weren't enough cubs, definitely not where I live or where I used to live 200 miles away. Scouting was way more popular which was why girls wanted to join

I'm pretty certain it was a nationwide recruitment decision for scouting, will Google in a minute.

With regard to opening girlguiding to boys, that would be a different situation. Parents would know it was a mixed sex organisation (and I wouldn't have to pretend to identify as anything). As it is, parents could be completely unaware that their 13/14 year old daughter is sharing a tent with a male.

grannytomine
I understand that you are not bothered about the lack of girls only groups like the guides.
But are you happy that 10 year old girls should share showers and sleeping accommodation with transgender teenagers with penises?
And how are parents able to safeguard their children if they are not to be informed about this?
Finally, what are the implication for say Muslim girls joining the Guides and going on residentials with this policy? Or maybe they just shouldn't go?

Agree with you, MrsKCastle.

Part of my role as a leader is deconstructing gender - showing the young females in my group that they are not limited by the socialisation of girls. I think of Brownies as my feminist act!

I agree with Giles, it isn't about the rights of accepting the other sex into organisations, it is about letting boys into spaces that should be girl only.

Scouting wasn't more popular - they had a leadership crisis in the 80s and 90s and opening it to boys and girls increased the number of volunteers.

This isn't new, it happened several months ago. It's just the Mail who have picked it up today for some reason.

As a brownie leader and GC feminist I have no idea what I will do when faced with this situation. I have seriously considered leaving, because of another implication of the change. Girlguiding UK is open for 'anyone who identifies as a girl or woman' to join. I have thought long and hard and come to the conclusion that I don't 'identify as a woman'. I am female, but that's not the same thing. SO, technically, I do not qualify as a leader. I can only be a volunteer helper (open to everyone including men). A big part of me wants to take them at their word and down-grade my memebership, but that doesn't seem fair as it could impact on my group.

Interesting. I'm a Brownie leader and about a year ago, the Chief Guide spoke at an event I was at, urging us to recruit amongst communities where parents are very keen for their daughters to attend girls-only clubs. This seems a different approach.

A previous poster said it's a recruitment thing - it's absolutely not. We have 70,000 girls on waiting lists to join the movement. We need more volunteers!

But it's not about being mixed is it.

It's about pretending boys are girls and having to sleep and shower with them

Huge difference

If guides accepted both would there be an issue? Where you all complaining when boys lost the opportunity to have a male organisation? I don't believe it was because there weren't enough cubs, definitely not where I live or where I used to live 200 miles away. Scouting was way more popular which was why girls wanted to join.

tis old news I think

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2834684-Furious-Girl-Guides-now-admitting-boys

Boys lost the choice as girls wanted to go into this male space, why do we think it is OK to treat them differently? If it was unfair to keep girls out of scouting why is guiding different?

That isn't the point. Scouts accepts boys and girls. Guides only accepts girls but now accepts children who are genetically and physically male but say they are girls.

grannytomine
The problem is not mixed sex groups - it's the deliberate policy of allowing transgender children / adolescents to sleep together, shower together etc.
I presume that the Guides had one of the transgender organisation is who told them that it is transphobic and literal violence to allow girls privacy or dignity when showering, changing or sleeping and that the needs of an individual male child to be validated as a female outweighs the wish of ANY girl for dignity and privacy. And of course it makes the Guides a no go area for any girls where religious expectations of privacy from the opposite sex matter. Not to mention a deliberate policy of not letting parents know that their 11 year old will be sharing a dorm / tent with a 16 year old transgender girl with a penis.

It's amazing how this group gets a 'pass' in terms of safeguarding? But hey, they're just girls after all and there's only one group with wishes that matter these days.

This isn't about mixing the group's though.this is denying biological differences and not providing the provisions that would be made when taking a mixed group out on a camp.

So the biys and girls would used separate facilities and kept separate on a known mixed trip.

They wouldn't have to pretend X was a girl and share showers

Boys lost the choice as girls wanted to go into this male space, why do we think it is OK to treat them differently? If it was unfair to keep girls out of scouting why is guiding different?

Why do they have to be the same? Why aren't both sexes allowed space on their own?

And it wasn't that it was unfair to keep girls out of scouting - it was that the cubs needed more members (at least in the areas I knew about - we were up to 3 packs of brownies, and the cubs was struggling to fille one around where I lived).

Definitely all together on Ten Tors as well.

I honestly can't remember, ours were the little ones so probably more of an issue with the older ones.

My kids did camp outs in the school hall and they were all together.

Presumably they slept separately though?

We used to take boys and girls to camp, it wasn't a problem. I helped with beavers but there would be cubs and scouts there as well.

I wonder if some guide leaders will now stop taking guides to camp or on any overnight trips, as they won't want to be responsible for a mixed group.

Boys lost the choice as girls wanted to go into this male space, why do we think it is OK to treat them differently? If it was unfair to keep girls out of scouting why is guiding different?

Oh FFS I chose to send my DD to brownies/guides because it was girls only. If a boy joins her unit and goes to the camps then my DD won't be going.