Feminist Pub XVIII, in which the Bluestocking greets the first signs of spring with a glass of something soothing

"they're being controlling/obsessive because they care"

If it was a context other than schoolfriends there would be a name for that, wouldn't there?

Oh hai! Soft drink please, running training is nearly finished!

Sorry about the house sera, will you get any of your money back?

INicked just by confronting your family member and explaining it, you haven't failed her. Will you be contacting the school? Being a teenager now is terrifying.

Had to stand up for myself at work today, and I'm still being a bit ill now. Someone missed a deadline I had given them (by over a week) and as such I had to organise something myself, and she doesn't like what I've done and is demanding I change it. I stood my ground though, and even managed to keep from apologising. I hate any kind of confrontation and she was quite aggressive, so I'm unreasonable proud of myself for not just rolling over. (Tiny bit glad I'm not in work tomorrow though, for when the shit meets the fan). Baby steps.

Can I just say huge thanks to the person that linked the downloadable copies of Dworkin's books. I'm poor at the minute and have had a lot of my wish list for a while. I'm ploughing through them (in order) on my commute and loving it.

Inicked - yes, that's exactly it. The thing is that the other child IS doing the staring/ evil eye type thing, but DD needs to learn to ignore it and just get on with her day. What bothers me most is the attitude of "they're being controlling/obsessive because they care" which the other parent is saying. No way am I saying that to DD - plenty of ways to care about someone without the controlling/obsessive behaviours.

btw - I think the idea of raising the issue of cyber bullying with the school is a good one (although you've obviously done more fo the girl than any of her friends). You could just let the school know that you're only distantly connected with the school, but still you know that there are students who think that FB shaming/comments/bullying is happening, and that the students don't get what they're doing Perhaps the school could raise this as obviously there are large numbers of students sending hurtful messages who think that it's OK to do this. It's really hard, but some kids just don't get that 'talking about someone' is the same as 'gossiping' which is the same as 'bitching and bullying'. You have to make those connections for them.

Kickass, I understand what you mean, like your dd worries about the other girl watching her, and wondering if she's been watched and having funny looks from her or followed by her type thing? She's aware that she could be watching her so can't really relax? I can't give any practical advice, but it must be draining for your dd and for you to see her anxious.

I worry that dd is at the start of something like this, dd has had a close friendship for three years now, and I've noticed the last year a bit of possessiveness, her friend makes dd feel guilty for doing things with other friends, and changes her opinions, clothes, hair and behaviour to mimmick dds. Dd sometimes feels stifled but she loves her friends very much, so I'm just keeping an eye on things. They will be going to seperate schools next year so chances are they will grow apart maybe.

Is it easy for them to avoid each other at school? Do they share mutual friends? The only thing I can think to say, is to ignore her, but the that's not easy if the other girl is actively bugging her. I hope someone can give you better advise than me.

kickass I have no experience with this I'm afraid, so cannot advise. But I have done my fair share of obsessing (over something entirely different) and telling myself to stop. But until I actually confront what I was obsessing about and allowing myself to be angry I couldn't move on. Perhaps that's what she needs? (Sorry - may be talking nonsense... )

I am in a quandary.

I shall have to be a bit vague as it is about DD and friendships, and I don't like giving out details of kids at school, so sorry if it doesn't make sense.

DD has been good friends with someone for a long time but now has fallen out with them. There is good reason and she doesn't want to be friends with them ever again. They are not letting go and alternate between bugging her to speak to them or getting angry and upsetting her. They are pretty obsessive and can go out of their way to obviously give her the evil eye and/or follow her around at lunch time.

So I'm a bit confused on what advice to give her. She needs to stop obsessing about whether they are obsessing over her (did that make sense?) and to relax so that she can enjoy herself with her friends. But I don't think she should forgive and forget. The other kid has been very controlling of her (and their mum thinks this is because the kid cares so much for DD so it excuses their behavior).

So what is the middle line? I think she's made the right decision to break off the friendship, but she also needs to move on so that this doesn't keep building into some big hate thing.

School knows and teachers are intervening when necessary, but what can I say to DD as her mother to help her manage how she feels and responds?

I don't think you can contact the school unless you keep her name out of it which may make it pointless.

You cannot contact her. No matter how well intentioned since as far as she is concerned this is just gossiping. You cannot contact the police. You have no idea where that would lead.

The best thing is to keep on at your relative. Emphasise how she must be feeling, this is bullying - lay it on thick. People in her situation can be driven to suicide - does he want that on his conscience?

Does his mother know? If this were my son he'd bear my full wrath.

I'm so sorry sera

Oh, no!

Sorry, that's rotten.

Bastards!

I've had 14 moves in 30 years (not all buying, some rented) & have had to put up with buggery like this.

But, I've always then got a house I liked more.

Have a virtual with me - and we can weep into our dregs.

XXXXX

Oh no!

Oh no!!! That's the pits. They shoud be penalized for that. I'm guessing that apart from the disappointment, you will be losing money

Arse, double arse, fuck and buggery! The people we were buying our house from have pulled out and taken it off the market!!

I was reading something the other day, where they had a generic "she" - but it was a negative context - can't remember quite what, just that it made me sigh.

A colleague asked me to proofread a fairly lengthy document, it's an interesting topic so I was happy to oblige (I am officially an author though my main input was very early on).

I'm v happy to see she's got the "hypothetical person participating in X activity" as She not He.

I generally tend to go for They but it's just nice (though a bit depressing that it's surprising).

I would hope the school would deal with the perpetrators directly (i.e. bullies/name callers) rather than expecting her to step forward.

Or maybe the police if you are not confident the school will deal with this (which is after all rape) sensitively/correctly?

Is your relative mature enough to understand why you might be doing this? To keep quiet about it if you tell him you are going to approach school or police?

I know the school yes, I know her name as it was displayed in the convo, but not the name of the boy involved, he wasn't part of the conversation I saw and his name wasn't mentioned, I was going to ask for her number but then don't wt her to feel uncomfortable either, having a total stranger phone her, but then she might want some support and have no one. I'd be ok with ringing the school, the only reason I haven't is I worried it would make it worse for her if they pulled her aside? I could keep her name out if it and say I saw something alarming on one of their pupils phones, I actually want to name the people calling her names but again would that make it worse for her?

Do you know the school the girl goes to? Or the school the family member goes to if different? Would you feel up to contacting them?

That's so awful, INicked. The poor girls was effectively raped by a classmate, everyone knows and understands this and yet it's her they've turned on. So messed up. At least they've had someone point out to them how wrong their thinking is. Hopefully some of what you said will filter through.

That's a terrible story. My parents still talk fondly about my brother's rather long list of girlfriends but frown at my having had two live in boyfriends (not at the time, mind you ) before I married.

inicked - that girl's been failed all right but not by you.

Well done to your dd errorl, my dd can't wait to start secondary school to study the sciences more. She has a Hot Wires set and absolutely loves creating all the various circuits.

Fibonacci, I hope you get lots of calls today.

I've calmed down a lot today, the main thing that's been niggling at me, at the weekend I was a 16th party for a close family member. he handed me his phone to show me a group convo with a girl from school, and some friends who were there at his party, and it was awful, the convo starts with her asking the people in the room to leave her alone, she hates going to school now because of a mistake she made, that she hasn't done anything wrong but feels ashamed to leave her home, she doesn't care what they think of her but please stop calling her names and telling everyone, then half a dozen people calling her a slag, or that if she's ashamed she shouldn't have done it, it being having sex with someone at a party the weekend before, the girl explains she was embarrassed enough at losing her virginity this way as she can't remember much of it, one if the last thing she remembers was being sick as she was so drunk! she just wants to forget it ever happened so can they leave her alone, then more slag comments from the others, I handed him his phone back and said "that's disgusting" they assumed I was talking about her, so I soon put them straight, I asked what treatment the boy who had sex with her was getting and they all looked confused, so I asked why it's ok for him to have sex at a party but not her, why isn't he being made to feel ashamed and lose friends and being bullied by people who are supposedly his friends, I left the room then as I could feel the looks from everyone, no one (adults included) backed me up and just looked uncomfortable, like they wanted me to stfu, I went to the bathroom and cried, I was so angry. I later pulled him aside and asked him to please stop calling her names, and asked the rest of them to leave her alone, talked about consent and that if she was so drunk she vomiting and falling over does he think she was in a state to consent, and this girl was his friend and how would he feel if a friend treat him that way, or his sister when she's older and he got where I was coming from but I'm not sure enough to make him change his opinion.

The girl has been in my mind ever since, I don't know her but I feel like I've failed her in a way, i can't explain it.

Thanks, SeraOfelia. I know it is just a matter of people being really busy and trying to organise several senior folks' diaries, but waiting can make one go kookoo.