Feminist Pub XVIII, in which the Bluestocking greets the first signs of spring with a glass of something soothing

either way, it would be entirely ridiculous and trivialising to include consensual piercings in the classification FGM

jeanne, in that blog this "It seems safer in and out of the queer community to be attracted to men" is such a scary thing to realise

re the piercings, it seems sensible to take "every precaution to record genital piercings that have been done within an abusive context" (as DoH is quoted saying in the article). but the WHO does not separate consensual piercings (see type IV here www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/overview/en/), unless they do not classify consensual piercings as "harmful procedures" so the distinction is implicit?

I've no idea what people realize, stormy, I can well believe people confuse those too. I've got a low opinion of human intelligence today.

I'm not that good at CVs, but is it for a specific job? I usually do the 'And my experience in [x] gives me ideal skills for [requirement y on the job spec' approach. If you can use the structure they've given you on the job spec, it is less painful.

Item four on that list: people do realise the M stands for mutilation, don't they? Not modification? They are so very much not the same thing at all.

We have people who are good at CVs here, right? Can someone explain the bit where you waffle on and sell yourself? I seem to be having trouble comprehending what one is actually supposed to write there.

Well, for starters, I wrote a ranty post them lost it. But, basically, the news today.

A medic thinks that toddlers need 'therapy' to make them into the 'correct' gender, if they like playing with opposite-gender toys. In case they should grow up to be trans or (shock!) feminists, or just normal people who played with all sorts of toys as children.

This idiot thinks that schoolgirls should have older boys assess how attractive their bodies are, because obviously that will be brilliant for their self esteem. As will his claim that (woo-hoo) body fat is good because men like it! Oh joy!

I just saw this link, about this poor woman who feels as if she can't figure out her own sexual/gender identity because even supposedly supportive communities make her feel judged.

And there's this idiotic and offensive idea about reclassifying piercings as a form of FGM. Which doesn't trivialize the real issue at all.

Oh, and I am increasingly convinced that fiction is actually a strategy for convincing men to invade and appropriate women's emotions, bodies and experiences and to call this activity 'empathy'.

I'm in a really happy place.

Oh, and DrTwo and any other men on this thread. Seems a bit rude to leave them out.

Just pulling up a chair.

Today, I want to kill all the men.

Except the nice man at the greengrocer's. And the one who sells me milk. And the bloke who writes lovely feministy blogs. And my brother.

Damn.

I can't kill all the men.

But, oh, wow, today I really could want to.

Yup!

Was that you in the underwear yonic? (Attempt at being cryptic.)

Oh, I haven't been away, I've been in disguise, in my furs and cap

Sisters

If it helps, y'all come across as extremely personable, smart and engaging on here.

(And I don't have to perform socialisation, though I do perform self belief.)

I've been unemployed for a few months now so I've had lots of lovely alone time at home - it's been fantastic. But now that we've moved, DH is working from home and it's awful! I love the man deeply but I'd rather be by myself. Luckily he gets this and (I think) isn't hurt by my occasionally not wanting him around. But on Wednesdays he goes into work. I love Wednesdays! But I also can't wait to start work. I find work interactions much easier because they're more about work than social stuff. Work I understand. And it's also easier to shut yourself away into your work when you need alone time.

It's so much easier for me to conduct friendships online because it's a measured interaction with temporal spacing I can cope with, rather than the instantaneousness of RL contact

Yes me too. I hate being cornered in meetings at work, I like pre-read and decision sent later by email. I freeze or react oddly if I'm put on the spot irl, I much prefer electronic communication.

It's very hard to separate nature from nurture isn't it. I can definitely relate to the performativity thing - I copy behaviours I've seen other people use successfully in certain circumstances, I don't have any instinctive feel for what to do. But now i watch DD (14 months) and she's doing exactly the same thing. Just in a really obvious toddler-ish way, and at the same time as she finds out how the physical world works (eg pull on toilet roll, get satisfying pile of paper on floor). So maybe that's just how people learn how to interact?

I think the spectrum end of NT definitely describes me as well, but I've no idea if that means I'm permanently hindered - the brain is plastic apparently but I don't feel socially more comfortable than I did as a child! It's a looooong journey.

I don't know? Is it real once you learn by copying behaviour or is it so indistinguishable from real that it's effectively real? I don't know how it feels to be inside the brain of a socially confident person

I certainly get what you mean about feeling needy, Petula. Because of my various social issues, I only have three RL friends and various acquaintances. I can't keep up superficial friendships; it's just too much hard work unless I really bond with someone on a deeper level, and that has only happened with my three friends. But I'm also very aware that while I only have these three friends who mean more to me than I can ever express, to them, I'm just another friend, albeit it a very good one, in a huge social circle. So there will always be this power imbalance that I need them way more than they need me.

When it comes to social media though - people I don't have to interact with in RL - I have loads of people I would consider genuine friends - many of you included. It's so much easier for me to conduct friendships online because it's a measured interaction with temporal spacing I can cope with, rather than the instantaneousness of RL contact, where I often can't keep up.

Buffy's poist of 09:42:11: you have written what I wanted to write.

I don't know what "instinctive" means. I gather data, process them while taking into account other relevant information, make interpretation, and react accordingly by thinking if conclusion (a) is correct I should do X, etc, and then find the least offensive (to others, if I'm in a good mood, to me, if not) path to take. Is that not normal?

i think you would all find me a nightmare in RL!

it's very interesting about the "saying what you mean" and how that affects different people (particularly with ASD of course). my instinct in RL is to rarely express myself directly - always suppress, suppress, suppress - as it deflects attention away from me and doesn't conflict with my need to please. i get over it reasonably well, but it is difficult

SoMuchForSubtlety i have enormous problems due to moving around a lot as a child. i can't talk to my parents about it though as they take it as me blaming them, when i don't - it was a fact of their careers (well, dad's actually). but it doesn't stop me from having had very great difficulties as i struggle to move relationships on from fairly superficial pleasing each other early stages to actually something deeper, which might withstand disagreements. like you, i find strong emotions in others very distressing, and i rarely react very emotionally in RL because i fear that it will make me needy and will stop people liking me (because i'm stuck in the early stages of a friendship iyswim).

SoMuchForSubtlety and Buffy - I also moved around a lot as a child (seven primary schools and a year of home ed) and it got to the point where I just didn't bother interacting with the other children any more - what was the point in making friends if we were just going to move in a couple of months anyway? I'm very introverted to start with so social interactions are hard work for me. When we finally stopped moving, I didn't realise that it was our "final stop" as were, so as usual, I hadn't bothered making friends and then was stuck the next 8 years with children who had formed an opinion of me as a weirdo who didn't talk to people and was instead rather rude. So I was absolutely socially inept when I left school. I didn't know how to interpret tone of voice, body language, subtlely - you had to tell me things exactly as they were or I wouldn't understand. University was no better, I made very few friends as I was so "rude" - never intentionally, I just didn't know how to talk to people.

Eventually I worked in a pub where I used my time to really watch how people interacted and read lots of books on body language. One of the other staff there was, well, how to describe her? She was popular, knew how to socialise and was kind enough, but also blunt and took no bollocks, so she would tell me when I was cocking up socially. It was actually hugely helpful! I was much better after working there, and more able to interact with people, though I never initiated any conversations or friendships. At parties etc I'd still just stand in the corner and not talk to anyone unless they approached me. DH is unfortunately the same, so when we went out together we'd be a pair of wallflowers. His excuse is that he's a twin, so they always had each other, and because of that he reckons he also missed out on a lot of learning to interact with people who weren't his brother.

Living in Israel also helped. They're a very blunt people, so I fit right in with my less-than-subtle manners. In fact, they thought I was rather reserved! It was such a relief to me to find out that the British way of never quite saying what you mean was just a British thing - it wasn't universal and I wasn't unique in wondering why people don't just say what the fuck they mean. I felt so much at home there; I wasn't the weirdo with no manners, I was just normal.

But I think it was an MN meet-up that finally got me to put myself out there. I went to one where I knew no-one and made myself flit about from group to group, being a social butterfly, talking to everyone. It was absolutely performative, but so wonderfully liberating. And now I'm quite happy to just go up to people and start chatting.

It's taking me until the age of 40, though, to teach myself how to behave in public without making a complete tit of myself. It has been a very hard slog. I don't know if I'm slightly on the ASD spectrum; I'm certainly at the spectrum end of people who aren't on the spectrum, if that makes sense. I'm still a raging introvert and my mental health suffers hugely if I don't get a lot of time alone.

Wow, that got long. TL:DR - yes, I totally get what you mean by "performing" normal social interactions. I do it too. But it is becoming more natural to me the more I do it, even though I was a late starter!

DH sometimes takes the piss by pretending something is what it isn't (lying to me to wind me up, basically, not malicious). It has taken me years and years to pick up on it and even now I still fall for it occasionally. I just take everything at face value.