Feminist Pub XVIII, in which the Bluestocking greets the first signs of spring with a glass of something soothing

Hello all Congratulations BlackRider

Can I have a(nother) moan about university? There is an 'occupation' going on at the moment. The occupiers didn't have any demands until after they had occupied the building. [And don't get me started on that said 'whorephobic' people aren't welcome...]

They decided to occupy a corridor in the main building, right by disabled and student services. A lot of disabled students couldn't access their appointments, neither could other students access services. No apology forthcoming: there has been a 'fauxpology' on FB. 'We know better than yow, be grateful for our condescension because it will help students in the future'.

On to my personal whinge. I made an appointment to see my dissertation supervisor yesterday and was going to crack on with it this weekend. However, uni management closed the university early for Easter, which means she's had to cancel and I have to wait another week for my feedback.

Yes I did - my steak was really nice, and the rice pudding with honeycomb wasn't bad either.

DH snuffled and coughed all night, but insists he is going to work today no doubt to ensure everyone else gets sick

This cartoon pretty much sums up the men where I work

Did you go out oubliette? I love eating out on my own.

Not at all, it would be a good opportunity to read a nice book.

DH is back fro his course, and has gone straight to bed feeling ill. We were supposed to be going out for dinner. Would it be unreasonable to leave him in bed, and go out for dinner anyway (on my own)?

checks payslip online

notes very small but non-zero amount detailed "salary" rather than "statutory pay". Heaves sigh of relief.

notes nothing detailed as "childcare vouchers"

congratulates self once again on working out it was better to be paid for just a few days this month and have work pick up the childcare voucher bill, rather than take my accrued annual leave and pick it up myself

waits for the "Those people on maternity/adoption leave are just taking the pee" brigade to descend

I think he's probably a perfect example of what some of us mean by 'stupid' or 'unthinking'. He knows one thing about you, and doesn't then try to learn more, or think about how you're feeling. Instead of something that shows thought and intelligence, like 'how does it feel getting back to work?' he clumsily witters on about the one thing he knows about.

Generally, I am really crap about remembering facts. I have found this has got much worse since Vit D deficiency and underactive thyroid problems kicked in. BUT I can still discuss the most out-there of theories and think my way through a difficult problem. I miss the ability to just recall almost anything I want to, but I wouldn't think of myself as 'stupid'.

'Stupid' to me means someone who doesn't even attempt to take a broader view, who never tries to see someone else' perspective, or who just accepts stereotypes and simple, lazy explanations rather than actively engaging with an issue and thinking about it. So, someone who confuses causality and coincidence (e.g. immigration and poverty levels - we're all poor because of the immigrants type thinking) and then dismisses any attempts to explain the difference (bad employers encourage immigrants so that they can keep workers poor).

But at SJMC. How is that an acceptable question to ask? I tend to respond with "what exactly do you mean by that" quite a lot these days.

When I went back to work after my second maternity leave fucking HR didn't know I was back and didn't pay me for a couple of months.

I enter the break room, lunch in hand.

Not surprisingly as my workplace is cr*p at bothering to tell anyone anything about anyone's movements, a couple of people have only just realised I"m back at work.

Slightly junior male colleague: Oh, welcome back. Are you back for good?

Me: (paranoid that some job hunting efforts that I've decided to shelve, having decided I'm happier where I am, have been publicised) Yes, I'm not going anywhere that I know of, unless you know otherwise?

SJMC: No, I mean are you adopting again?

Me: (rather taken aback) Not as far as I know!

This is my second day back at work. In what world is it acceptable to ask that? Would he have asked a male colleague that? Or one who had taken maternity leave??!!

I'm already feeling paranoid about my position (it's safe but easy to get sidelined) owing to having been off work more than in work over the last 3 and a bit years. I think that SJMC was just being clunky and awkward. I hope so anyway!

their company wouldn't hire me at the level I want becausethey want people to prove themselves

Yeah, women hired for their achievements and men for their potential. It's crap.

Wow, lots of philosophy in the middle of the night (OK, middle of the night for me).

I think that what distinguishes people who are really annoying and appear to be "hard of thinking" from those who appear to be well read/have lots of knowledge is not so much what you know already (knowledge) or your intellectual quickness (for want of a more neutral phrase) but your willingness to try and learn. The negative quality that others are describing seems more like laziness than stupidity to me.

So I meet people especially through volunteering who have very few formal qualifications, and who find typically "intellectual" tasks such as computer tricks, form filling, and writing long pieces of coordinated prose very difficult but who are willing to learn new things and ideas. However others with the same background are incredibly resistant to change (e.g. things like trying, if not necessarily succeeding 100%, in using new different permission forms for Guiding outings, or in teaching the concepts behind the new Guide promise, as opposed to closing one's mind and refusing to even contemplate change).

And I meet professionals through work who have qualifications coming out of their ears and a vast body of subject-related and world knowledge but who have closed their minds to the possibility of change and won't think about a new way to do an admin task or (though this is rare now thankfully!) need someone to print out their emails. DH comes across more managers directly like this than I do as his job seems to have more room for dinosaurs.

I'm feeling rather stupid at the moment, despite historical evidence to the contrary I just seem unable to absorb new information. Stress about feeling unemployable is not helping .

But I found a really good video today that helped me feel a bit better after a recruiter boldly told me that their company wouldn't hire me at the level I want because they want people to prove themselves (I'm so tired of proving myself over and over and over):

leanin.org/education/what-works-for-women-at-work-part-1-prove-it-again/

Congratulations BlackRider!

I'm more inclined towards BlackRider's definition of stupidity. I think that I sometimes also add unkindness into the definition, but not sure if that's quite the "right" thing to do.

Congratulations TBR!

I am not sure if it's cleverness or what, but one thing that often surprises me is how narrow people's knowledge is. I have a pretty broad general knowledge, and it's taken me some while to get my head round people not knowing what the common birds in the grounds at work are for example. And while I know everyone will have gaps, a lot of people don't seem to fill up the spaces with other stuff, they just don't know as much.

That doesn't bother me as much as when they don't know, they don't seem to care at all, whereas I'm always looking up stuff. How can you come across a new word and not want to know what it means?

And then I spend time worrying I'm some sort of intellectual snob, which probably most people don't. I don't have much tolerance for deliberate ignorance and uninterestedness, though.

I would also prefer not to be having a massive attack of hiccups at 3am...

Sorry am probably getting a bit deep for the pub. I do get what you mean. But I also agree with StillLost. Just a thing I've been realising recently about words, but perhaps unhelpful for this discussion.

I would say for me the "candy crush and Jezza Kyle" thing is unthinking rather than stupid. As in being something that you choose (or if you like a lack of action/choosing) rather than a trait you can't help.

I don't know. I am clever in an intellectual/academic way. And I do often get frustrated at the lack of "mental horsepower" (great expression :)) in general in the world, and I suppose that it's only really recently that I've realised that I do have more of that power, if you like, than a lot of people, which is a bit of a shock because as you grow up, there are always people, (ie adults) who know more things than you, and it's jarring to realise that you have overtaken the majority and that although there are, a great many people still cleverer than you, that most people you meet aren't any more. I also have times where I am completely irrationally annoyed that people don't know everything that I know. (Even stupid stuff, like every time there is a thread about rear facing car seats somebody, or several people, say "But where do their legs go?". Now I know that they have better things to do than to have read every car seat thread ever, and it's a perfectly valid thing to wonder about, and that they may well not have come across it before as their DC are younger, but my mind just yells "People have said this like a hundred million times, stupid! Google it or read an old thread! Gah! How can you NOT KNOW that?" And so I have been known to think or say things about "The stupid" in general. (Fucking dress photo thing almost broke me.) But if I stop to think about it it does make me uncomfortable.

I think I have tried to relate to the point and also make a point about words in the same post and it hasn't really come across or been relevant. And then I've just done exactly the same in this thread. I also need more sleep :)

As the "feminist support" thread doesn't get much traffic may I point you all to the post about dealing with inappropriate conduct at work ?

Sigh. Sorry, it's late, even for the pub, apparently. You're both taking this in a way I wasn't intending so I apologise.