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Original poster

Feminism for dummies

115 replies

Nigglenaggle · 26/11/2012 21:46

Hi. I have never really read much about feminism, but I always thought, in its essence, it was about bringing equality for men and women. however reading threads in this section has lead me to believe in fact that is not the case. In fact I've come to wonder if that is even a large part of it. Please explain to me, in plain English, what feminism is. An overview of the different schools of thought within it would be welcome, however please stick to simple terms, for a simple girl Grin

OP posts:
ashesgirl · 27/11/2012 22:38

inherent personality traits IN men, I meant to say

ashesgirl · 27/11/2012 22:38

But DV is such a widespread problem, it can't just be down to nasty personalities.

And if that was the case, why would be there so many more nasty inherent personality traits men than women?

Everything I've read suggests it's frequently cultural attitudes towards women that lie behind abuse.

Obviously not always - men can be abused too. But the stats show DV is much more likely to men abusing women.

Original poster
Nigglenaggle · 27/11/2012 22:34

I don't know how I could have explained better above that I meant not to offend..... what would you have me do?

OP posts:
AnyFuckingDude · 27/11/2012 22:32

You are talking about a perpetrator there...but you described someone on the receiving end of DV as "weak". It's there, in black and white.

Original poster
Nigglenaggle · 27/11/2012 22:30

'Weak' wasn't an insult. Possibly a poor choice of phrase (tact has never been my strong point). I think what I meant to say was that the primary characteristic of the offenders is not their gender, but the fact that they are ..... not nice people. Same as Myra Hindley wasn't. Or Hitler. Gender is not the problem but... nastiness... again I struggle to express myself. Be patient please.

OP posts:
ashesgirl · 27/11/2012 22:22

In fact, the 'weak' issue is a prevailing myth about DV.

summerflower · 27/11/2012 22:22

I guess that is where I haven't been understanding feminism.

AnyFuckingDude · 27/11/2012 22:20

Domestic violence is massively gendered, and the vast majority of women who experience it are not "weak"

ashesgirl · 27/11/2012 22:19

But domestic violence IS a problem of abuse by men towards women.

The British Crime Survey found that there were an estimated 12.9 million incidents of domestic violence acts (that constituted non-sexual threats or force) against women and 2.5 million against men in England and Wales in the year preceding interview (Walby & Allen, 2004) Taken from Women's Aid.

Is there not a discrepancy there between the genders?

AnyFuckingDude · 27/11/2012 22:13

"DV is wankers against the weak"

You really think that ?

Original poster
Nigglenaggle · 27/11/2012 22:06

FGM luckily not a big problem in the UK. Worldwide, I am maybe with you. I don't see domestic violence as a problem of abuse by men against women, so much as a problem of wankers against the weak. I guess that is where I haven't been understanding feminism.

I promise to look it up Abi. May take a while as have a squawking DC (he's a male too :P). I feel I have equality. But I work in a massively female dominated industry so maybe I have a slightly skewed perspective. Until recently, the female only right to maternity leave has been a massive issue for us, but now that this has been altered (and there's room for improvement, but it's tweaking) then I believe we have it. We already have equal pay and other rights (which are exercised in my profession) and this has just equalised the way we are seen as employment prospects. There is tweaking to be done for men too, in their rights to access to their children. There was recently a case where a father, whose partner died in childbirth, had to apply in court for access to his own child - there was no arguement between him and the mother or suggestion of ill-doing on his part, and he was named as the father in the maternity notes, but he still had to prove it. That's worse than any inequality we still face as women (in the UK). But others have said that feminism is about equal rights for all, so perhaps it is just ill named and abused as a concept.

OP posts:
ashesgirl · 27/11/2012 21:47

And that's two women a week in this country killed by their male partners.

ashesgirl · 27/11/2012 21:46

Well, yes many people are against domestic violence and FGM.

But they are still MASSIVE problems so clearly there's a lot more work to be done.

If two women a week are killed by their partner, we're a long way from being able to say we've tackled the domestic violence issue... or that equality is redundant.

Oldladypillow · 27/11/2012 21:34

What was supermann saying I'm intrigued?

AbigailAdams · 27/11/2012 21:32

Oh yeah sure we have equality.

Really, read the Equality Illusion.

Original poster
Nigglenaggle · 27/11/2012 21:26

OK thanks all some food for thought for me here, will read the links when I get chance. Thanks to all those who kept it civil, this was my hope for this thread! Feminism probably is as I thought it was, but I guess I disagree with some over its interpretation. I guess also I have been thinking that equality is sort of redundant because we have it (and who isnt against domestic violence and female genital mutilation?), but have been forgetting that we are talking globally, and certainly in lots of places outside the uk this is not at all true. So all in all I have some thinking material and that is never a bad thing :)

OP posts:
HullyEastergully · 27/11/2012 13:37

It's a shame, I really fancied him.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 27/11/2012 13:35

Maybe Supermann fell over his double consonants.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 27/11/2012 13:35

Niggle

Not all would agree with Sausage's definitions of what falls within liberal feminism, or indeed radical feminism, upthread.

Here's a thread with a few book recommendations:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1324124-Recommendations-of-good-intro-books-on-feminism

Forkful's questions thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1258668-ask-what-you-think-are-silly-Qs-here-and-forkful-will-try-to-answer-them-in-a-polite-helpful-way-by-directing-you-to-the-resources-she-found-useful-and-try-to-use-persuasive-arguments-and

TunipTheVegedude · 27/11/2012 12:48

'it isn't a case of there not being any role-models for her.'

It's broader than that though isn't it? She isn't just influenced by what she sees in her school, or at home, but in the whole culture around her.

To give you just one example, a year or two ago one of the major high street shops was selling a mobile phone case with the words 'I'm too pretty to do maths'.

rosabud · 27/11/2012 12:37

I'm amazed that girls outperform boys in education. I have professional and personal experience of boys intimidating girls and monopolising attention in our schools (and I don't mean in certain "shock-horror" incidents, I mean in constant, every day situations). Despite this, girls seeem to adapt, find coping strategies and "outperform" boys in many subjects at GCSE level. However, this trend is not continued at higher levels and, as we all know, the advantage all but disappears once we get into the workplace.

Personally, I don't think boys underperfroming at GCSE level is the issue that some make it out to be.

namechangeguy · 27/11/2012 12:14

Trisha, I too have an issue with my daughter and mathematics. She seems to switch off, and yet she has just got an A in her GCSE mock physics, and is projected for and A and a B in biology and chemistry. This attitude to maths will hold her back in the sciences, but I really don't know how much of it is down to her. She is at an all-girls school, and all teachers in the aforementioned subjects are women, so it isn't a case of there not being any role-models for her.

James Dyson was on the radio yesterday complaining that the UK does not value engineers and scientists. This is a massive issue for the UK, and we cannot afford to ignore the talents of half of our population when the sector itself is struggling.

I feel very uncomfortable talking about rape in here, so I will drop the subject. I take on board what everyone has written though.

AnyFuckingDude · 27/11/2012 11:56

dissolved in my acidic spit no less

his mummy called him for lunch

HullyEastergully · 27/11/2012 11:54

dissolved in AF's acid...

AbigailAdams · 27/11/2012 11:50

Aw Supermann has gone pffft. Bye bye.

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