Support needed for vulnerable 17-year-old possibly trying to get pregnant

Thanks for replying @llost, it sounds like a tough dynamic. I have a (much younger) child with adhd so I recognise the pattern with the lies.

Given how serious this is, I wouldn’t challenge the lies, but rather roll with them. I appreciate that goes against all instincts as a parent!

Accept the long story about the friend at face value, assuming it’s “true” and keep your focus on what you’re trying to do - educate on pregnancy, encourage the implant etc.

So, for example, she tells you a, b, c about the friend. You respond “That sounds so tricky for her, is she worried that social services will take the baby away because she has no income and nowhere to live?”

Hopefully that keeps the engagement whilst getting some important key ideas into her psyche…

When she denies that things are hers, I’m wondering whether “believing” the denial might help have the conversation at a bit of a remove and get her to open up a bit?

So, something like “You’re a very good friend to be helping someone like that. What advice are you giving her?”

Or for the pregnancy tests “I’m so glad your friend feels safe to take a pregnancy test here. Is she wishing that she was pregnant, or not pregnant, or a bit of both?”

With adhd and autism type traits, OCD is often a comorbidity. So I’m wondering whether it’s possible that the pregnancy tests are both wishing for a baby and worrying that she’s pregnant. And that it’s almost a compulsion to check? Especially likely if they’re being taken not long after a period.

Thinking practically, I would put some boxes of condoms in the bathroom cupboard, plus some morning after pills. And let her know that she can help herself for her friends. If she’s quite impulsive then easy access to the morning after pill is likely to help reduce the likelihood of her getting pregnant.

If the strategy above works well, id also try and push it to see if you can get it to work for the implant. “My friends daughter wants the implant, but is so anxious about getting it. I’m going to write down the steps for her to try and help. What would you recommend? Will you come to the doctor with me to show her how easy it is?” Followed by “Shall we just get you one whilst we’re here to show her how easily you can get it?”

Im wondering whether half the challenge here is that she isn’t mature enough to feel comfortable talking about being sexually active, so is avoiding the uncomfortable feelings of having the conversation. In which case you might get her to agree the implant for another reason “ to help her skin” or “to make her period lighter” etc.

What I mean is, they're not an investigation or interrogation service. They're not the police. They're not a statutory service.

If she gets pregnant, and she has to do a parenting assessment, she'll be challenged as to how she thinks she will meet a child's needs. The unborn will likely be on a CP plan. If nothing changes and her behaviour is as you say, unless there are family members who can care for this child the likely plan would application for proceedings with a request for separation. At her age there will be a lot of pressure for the Local Authority to consider a parent and child placement, her solicitor would certainly advocate for that

If she drinks very very heavily its not guaranteed the pregnancy would go full term anyway unfortunately.

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When you say CAMHS have 'accepted' her answers about the pregnancy tests, what is the alternative?

CAMHS is not a statutory service, they dont have to work with her if she chooses not to engage, its not their job to interrogate her about 'the truth', shine a light in her eyes to make her tell them an alternative. They work with what is in front of them, what she delivers to them, thats what therapeutic input is

Is she pda?

change tactics. Say I love you and trust you and be consistent. Unconditional love and support. Nothing she does will make you kick her out and push her towards the bf like you expect. she expects you to react badly.
dont be that person. Just say you’ll be there. Threats and punishment wont work here.

She is very vulnerable and unwell. I find jt very unlikely you would actually kick her out if she gets pregnant.

@llost

Capacity is more complex than that though, OP. It's possible for someone to have capacity in some aspects and not in others.

I would wonder whether she lacks the capacity to understand what the effect of constant heavy drinking on a foetus is.

https://www.nhs.uk/social-care-and-support/making-decisions-for-someone-else/mental-capacity-act/

But wouldn't pregnancy and childbirth make her spiral further? Has the MH team taken that into account?

What might her legal capacity be? I.e. power to make decisions on her own behalf? OK she's 17 so not legally adult yet, but the professionals involved with her say that any decision is up to her . When is her 18th birthday? Is it at all possible to arrange power of attorney for yourself to cover health decisions? I am not sure how that would work in practice but we did that for my DH's autistic son so a solicitor as well as my DH have joint power of attorney for finance and health. That has taken a huge burden off my DH.

I also think reporting her for benefit fraud would not only be pointless as it’s legally not fraud but would also nuke any chance of getting a relationship back with her one day. If she had a child and you reported her to social services because she wasn’t a good mother at least one day she might reflect and understand why if you reported her for fraud well technically fraud is a crime so you’d always just be vindictive to her

I agree but the authorities will not care

Well, spending it on those things does not seem to come under the headings of help with daily living OR help with mobility, which is what PIP is given for, so I think if not technically fraud, it’s certainly a misuse and thus might be worth reporting. Even if the authorities don’t care about the waste of taxpayers’ money, it does not seem to be helping the OP’s daughter, rather making her situation worse. She is too vulnerable and irresponsible to handle that much money.

I wonder whether it would be a good idea to apply to be the appointee regardless of the likely outcome.

The application form would require you to give her address; the logical thing would be to give her boyfriend's family's address, as that is where she actually lives.

She seems very keen to create a new identity which is very separate from her previous one and being on the DWP database as being resident at her boyfriend's address would seem sensible.

I am assuming that she is registered with the DWP as living at your address at the moment.

I can’t believe the amount of money a child in education receives from PIP it should go straight to the guardian. Also I’m a bit confused how she receives so much and seems to live quite independently.

I think the op needs to accept that it’s a job for the professionals now. Your dd is leaving all this stuff around for a reaction. Stop giving her the reaction. Keep lines open but have your own boundaries and keep them. She has all the chances and opportunities to facilitate her. She can’t see that and you can’t tell her.

That’s not benefit fraud though. And legally will achieve nothing. It’s obviously not a great use of tax payers money but it’s not fraud

Well, PIP is to cover the extra costs of having a disability. Vodka, expensive lingerie and false eyelashes don’t come into that category. It might be the nuclear option, but you could report her for benefit fraud.

In hindsight before I got pregnant at 15 I also had bad hygiene and was quite immature compared to my peers. Having my child and getting kicked out forced me to grow up. So you never know it might actually change her.
That said there seems to be nothing you can do here to stop her especially as she’s 18 soon all you can do at this stage is not let it stress you difficult I know but if there’s nothing you can do there’s nothing you can do. If she has a child and can’t look after it it will be taken into care at birth and adopted. It’s not your responsibility hypothetically if she had one child she could have ten more and you obviously wouldn’t be able to take them all in.