EHCP support thread no. 4

Brilliant thank you for your help, that has explained so much so I truly appreciate your response. I will be glad when this draft comes to know how much they have actually put on there. I have spoken to the SENCo at my daughter preschool and she said she will go through the draft with me once it’s been received. Just waiting now.

@Onegentlepeer is the school wholly independent or a section 41 independent?

You say it is the one and only school who say they can meet needs, but are there other non-wholly independent schools you think can meet needs even if they say they can’t?

@Namechangeagain80 it is something SENDIST will consider. Don’t worry if you don’t have the report before the final evidence deadline. You can request late evidence is admitted. Request the vague ‘if possible’ is removed and to define ‘small group’.

Please can anyone help?? .... The one and only school (independent SS) that say they could meet need 2 times... Now they have done the assessment on my dd and just said no they can't meet need good bye.... I'm heartbroken and devastated. My dd has done 2 full taster days at a massive distress to her.. And that's that no.
Now what??? Nobody wants her.

Any advice please

She doesn't suggest any recommendations specifically to do with S&L, but the challenges the teacher has listed seem to be significant in terms of not picking up on tone, body language or gestures and how if these were not addressed, it will significantly affect her further emotional and social development.

The school does not have independent S&L provision (outwith EHCPs), so surely this strongly suggests that S&L provision, and therefore an EHCP (or at least an EHCNA!) is necessary?

How much weight would a report made by a student social worker hold in terms of additional evidence for an EHCNA refusal to assess appeal?

My DD8 has been having weekly emotional literacy sessions with a student social worker on placement at the school. She is due to finish her placement in a couple of weeks and has produced a 'Moving on report'. It has not yet been finalised, but I have a copy of the draft - it's quite extensive and includes comments the student has gathered from the class teacher on how much DD is struggling socially, the impact her EBSA is having on her full understanding of the curriculum (and her Spring interim report shows a reduction in progress and attainment in maths) and her significant lack of confidence in class.

The student has made several recommendations, which includes further 1:1 emotional support, social skills group and other chances for small group work, and a 1:1 intervention (she has caveated this with if possible) for maths.

What I intend to do if time before the final evidence deadline (end of month) is to ask the SENCO how she intends to respond to these recommendations and submit both the report and her response. I spoke to the student on the phone about the report last week and she was doubtful that they would be able to implement the maths intervention because of lack of resources.

But yes, generally just asking how this kind of report would be viewed.

@Cinnamoncupcake when you respond to the draft, you should state your preferred placement for September as well as now.

If your preference is the local primary school, ignore the HT. The LA is responsible for provision detailed, specified and quantified in F, which is what 1:1 should be if it is reasonably required (and if it is required but isn’t in there, you will need to appeal whatever school is named), and that includes ensuring there is sufficient funding to actually provide the provision. EHCPs can be fully funded, but LAs don’t do this unless forced. If the school needs more funding, they should approach the LA.

Once DD is compulsory school age, transport is possible. Sometimes LAs will try to refuse if they believe there is a closer school suitable, but it is possible to challenge this. This SENTAS article explains more. Before DD becomes compulsory school age, things can be more difficult. There isn’t a duty to provide transport, but they have the discretion to provide it and you can argue the provision of transport is necessary to facilitate DD’s attendance at the school named in section I of the EHCP. If you have to appeal, Gavin at SENTAS is helpful.

If you state 2 preferences, a MS and SS, it is overwhelmingly likely the LA will state a MS (whether it is the one you stated or not), so if your preference is SS, you don’t have to state a MS and personally I wouldn’t.

Morning all, I am thinking about schools to put on my daughters draft ehcp plan, it’s going to start in preschool so that will be on there and they have already said they will meet her needs, from September she will be in primary school, so I’m guessing how close it is I will have to state primary school too. I’m still waiting to receive the draft copy before having a meeting with the headteacher at my local school but she doesn’t seem keen on funding the extra for a 1-1 ( assuming she will get it and preschool said they will fight until 1-1 is on there ) but there is also another school that can meet needs 10 mins drive away, if i was to put the other school would they provide transport? Recently my partner has changed jobs and uses our car or would I need to try find a second car? Also I didn’t know if I should state a mainstream and special school on the draft.

Thank you @BrightYellowTrain
Was sure la were going to complete consent order but still waiting amendments from wd v4 from September

@246810k you should hear within the next week.

Hi all, send tribunal hearing in less than 3 weeks. We've had the bundle some time now but just wondering are we likely to hear from sendist shortly to confirm the date and time? Anyone had a recent hearing able to confirm when they heard from them? Thanks all

@PeaHen99 SENDIST aren’t stupid. They see through LAs’ games. However, it sometimes leads to an adjournment, including sometimes to enable a visit.

In cases where the LA proposes MS and the parents are pursuing EOTAS/EOTIS, an independent school or non-maintained special school, I recommend ensuring your case could stand up to a last minute change.

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you.
It’s so underhand! Especially if it’s such a late change the parents don’t get the chance to visit the new school offered.
Do you know how it goes down with the tribunal?

@PeaHen99 I have known them to try it at any time, including at the hearing itself! It is a really underhand tactic.

@BrightYellowTrain
Do you know how close to tribunal the LA can swap proposed school to SS?
Am at tribunal in 2 weeks and the proposed MS school could not be clearer they can’t meet needs.
I can only assume they will swap to SS last minute or are dragging it out as long as possible to avoid paying the fees of my proposed school. Really grateful for all of your input on this thread, have learned a lot!

@EHCPerhaps there isn’t a legal duty requiring EPs to speak to parents and schools separately. Sometimes a joint meeting is how they gather evidence. It isn’t uncommon for EPs to say they think schools could do more - sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly (or at least not without further resources). There’s nothing preventing them from doing that, but it doesn’t detract from what they should be including in their advice and information.

When deciding whether it is necessary to prepare an EHCP following the NA, which is the legal test set out in section 37 of the Children and Families Act 2014, the LA should consider the evidence collated during the EHCNA (Regulation 7 of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Regulations 2014). That means they should consider all evidence. Not cherry pick. However, that doesn’t stop them paying lip service to this and ‘considering’ it, disregarding anything they wish and forcing parents to appeal.

It isn’t lawful to require EPs to ration provision. However, again, that doesn’t stop them from trying to get away with it. Similarly, they shouldn’t have blanket policies preventing EPs from detailing, specifying and quantifying provision (SENCOP 9.51).

Thanks Cinnamoncupcake that’s what I was expecting too. Seems very inappropriate to do it any other way.
I don’t know how to get them to enforce normal standards though. Parents not knowing, seems to be what they are hoping for.

With my daughters I had a telephone call with the LA Ed psych and preschool had a video call separately from me, they didn’t go into preschool to see my daughter, she said her job is to make it water tight for panel.

In the EHCNA , does anyone know if the local authority’s EP have any legal duty to speak to parents and schools separately, before making their report?

Also does the EP have any legal right or duty, to go in to the school and tell them where they aren’t doing enough for the child, before they make their EP report? I thought the EP was supposed to just talk to everyone and write up what they observe with recommendations.

I’m hearing that my local authority SEND panel often doesn’t follow its own EPs’ recommendations around agreeing to issue EHCPs anyway. What is the legality around that? There’s so much I don’t understand about this process. The local authority are clearly making the EP take on a rationing role for EHCPs though.,is this legal? Thought EPs were supposed to be allowed to be impartial.

No. I totally know that. I have a draft email to the DoE copied to SENDIASS ready to go to tomorrow morning politely inquiring why, three weeks in, there is still no proposal for how the setting that can’t meet is to meet need, in line with their statutory duty to ensure those needs are met. Three weeks since a legal document came into force that has been ignored by everyone responsible for delivering it ever since. Or indeed even any contact with the school at all.

My misunderstanding, apologies.

It is worth remembering that it is the LA with responsibility for ensuring DD receives a suitable full-time education and anything detailed, specified and quantified in F. So the LA doesn’t need the school to agree on what can be done and the LA cannot pass the buck. If they are refusing to provide this, enforcement action will focus their minds.

No. Not at all, I appreciate your input very much. It’s kind to take time to read all this!

No, if the school and LA can agree on what can be done right now, today, from the date of the EHCP, to meet my child’s needs, regardless of eventual setting, that would be great. Unfortunately at this point I’m not aware of any conversation at all between them so we are no further on at all.

Ah, I read your take a quick win as you would take the school arranging AP rather than continue the appeal. Sorry if that wasn’t what you meant.

No, fully aware of that. But my child is halfway through year 9 and I’m prepared to carry on fighting for the full shebang as long as it takes if they are able to access the right education even on a temporary basis while I’m doing it.

As you are probably aware, the problem is even if guarantees are made at the time, it doesn’t mean that will be stuck to.

I wouldn’t accept that without firm guarantees on it happening, with the provider of the AP agreed and contracted. We’ve already been stuck for an endless year in the situation you describe and it is not going to continue. If I say that the school managed not to actually notice that they’d been named as the setting you’ll get a sense of the uphill journey we’ve been on.

In a dream world we’d have a mix of core learning online and the school actually doing some effective reintegration with some funding in it, which section F as drafted would support, but nothing I’ve seen suggests they are capable of that. They’re currently not meeting their basic safeguarding duty.