EHCP support thread no. 4

Oh and sorry, no SALT. She has OT, specialist in HSD, which states anxiety and rest needed after activities, chronic pain and suggests physio, a physio report showing same and also adaptation like needing to use a laptop.

I can request a SALT though can't I? Or is it too late? The speech and language needs are fairly well covered in the EP report, can't talk to adults, mute when under pressure etc.

Thank you. I'll look into parents in need.

Actually I just checked and it said "Intervention involving a bespoke learning programme focussing on a few key subjects gradually encouraging her re-engage with her learning without putting too much pressure on her. Try to link work to xxxx
interests (where possible) to help motivate her and ensure that she has plenty of opportunities to succeed providing specific praise when she is successful"

It also said:

"When xxx xxx is ready to return to education, she will need a flexible approach with
few demands to help her to settle and a gradual integration programme. She will
need support to build her self-esteem and access to a small, calm, quiet environment
to help reduce anxiety with regular rest breaks."

The first bit is from provision and the second from the needs section.

I'll keep on nagging...

It isn’t uncommon for LA reports to be poor and the professionals to refuse to amend or fail to amend to a satisfactory standard. Keep going back to the LA and EP. Be a stuck record.

Provision in EHCPs is taken from the evidence so it is important the advice and information sought is detailed, specified and quantified. SENCOP 9.51 states the evidence and advice submitted by those providing it should be clear, accessible and specific. Regulation 6(1) of the SEN Regs 2014 states the advice and information must cover needs, provision to meet such needs, outcomes - i.e. there shouldn’t be needs that don’t have provision to meet the needs. Also point them in the direction of this guidance.

In the EHCP, all needs must be in section B. All needs must have corresponding SEP in F. This is stated in 9.69 of the SENCOP and underpinned by reg 12 of the SEND Regs 2014 and section 37 of the Children and Families Act 2014. If the evidence doesn’t ensure every need mentioned has corresponding provision, how on earth does the LA expect the EHCP to be written in a lawful way. Case law also shows the provision should be detailed, specified and quantified, and, again, if the advice and information isn’t detailed, specified and quantified how does the LA expect to be able to make F lawful.

A report saying bespoke education is good evidence. If you want to pursue EOTAS/EOTIS, the ‘yet’ on the end of cannot return to school lets it down somewhat. That is because some SS can offer a bespoke curriculum with a very very slow reintegration. It all depends on the wider context.

If you have to appeal, can’t afford an independent assessment and aren’t eligible for legal aid, it is worth contacting Parents in Need. Don’t stress about DD being unable to speak to someone. You would be amazed at what a good independent assessment can pick up even if DC struggle to engage.

Has DD had a SALT assessment?

@BrightYellowTrain I emailed the ed psych, she wouldn't amend, and said everything I'd asked would be covered by the comments on the draft ehcp.
I've copied all the emails to the caseworker..not sure what to do next, I've not been able to find anything to quote to say I am entitled to ask her to make clarifications or add provisions about needs that she mentions in the narrative parts but doesn't address in the provisions section.

In the report she does say things like bespoke education and cannot return to school yet, 'very very slow reintegration' and reduced package of GCSE subjects...I don't know if that's enough.

I'll look into independent reports but I think the cost is likely to be prohibitive, I just don't have thousands sitting around to be able to do that, plus the fact that DD can't interact with anyone, it would probably end up being a waste of money as I can't see how anyone can assess her if she won't speak to them. I'll just have to deal with that once the draft happens and if and when I need to appeal. I'll find it if I have to of course.

@BrightYellowTrain Thanks for that. Received SALT report today. She has also said he will need 1:1 full time- relieved both reports contain that.

@Icantpeopleanymore all the evidence should be considered. Reports will often contain a narrative element.

It’s the evidence from people like EP, OT, SALT, etc. who can prove it is inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school. Evidence of not being able to attend settings can be part of your evidence.

I would ask the EP to amend the report sooner rather than later. Focus on getting the EP report as good as it can be now, including needs, provision, outcomes, ensuring it is detailed, specified and quantified, and that it covers preparation for adulthood. That will be beneficial whether you appeal or not. And if you appeal for EOTAS you will probably need independent assessments.

Thank you, I don't know enough about viewpoint to know if it would work really. I can try to speak to them after half term to find out more.

I'll go through the report properly this evening, kids have just gone to their dad's till Wednesday so I've got more time without my shadow by my side.

Do they take into account the general comments made when drafting the EHCP (it mentioned exhaustion from mainstream, not able to trust adults) or just the recommendations?

I don't know how I can prove provision in a school would be inappropriate, apart from the fact she's not been able to attend and probably can't attend the medical provision they've pushed us to use either.

If panel are meeting tomorrow is there any rush to ask the EP to amend the report to say 4 GCSEs for example? As they'll start writing it soon I assume if they agree to issue. Or would that happen before appeal if I then appealed for EOTAS?

@Icantpeopleanymore it was Viewpoint’s provision I was thinking of. Obviously I can only comment based on your posts, but at the moment, I don’t think it would work for DD.

You can have a bespoke package with a setting named in section I with some of the package delivered in a school (whether that’s in MS, ARP, SS) and some otherwise than at school for the parts it would be inappropriate for DC to receive it in a school. But, you can’t have section I blank if attending a school like you would with a full EOTAS/EOTIS package. It would probably take an appeal, I’m afraid.

You need to go through the report very carefully. It needs to be detailed, specified and quantified - who, what, when, where, how…
For example:
“or similar” needs removing.
“trained member of staff” and “trusted adult” - what member of staff/adult, what training?
“counselling” - who will deliver this? Counsellor isn’t a protected title.
“social understanding support” - by who, what support.
What does “daily support with sensory needs” look like?
“access to” needs removing.
If you are going for EOTAS/EOTIS - “per subject” - how many? If you are going to pursue EOTAS, you need evidence it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school.

@BrightYellowTrain yes, you seem to know the provisions around Kent really well so you might have the right one in mind, The viewpoint?

I'm not sure it'll work either. All I know is that she's started to say she's bored, some self care is happening now and seems much happier, if she could have the option of attending somewhere that would be great but it's all so unknown. And yes, something else for the other days, maybe it could be tried in a combination we ith EOTAS? Not sure if that's done usually? She also needs rest days.

Just got the EP report, it seems ok, she has recommended lots of extra provisions, some things that can be provided at mainstream but lots that I don't think could including;

Weekly:

1:1 SULP or similar, provided by a trained member of staff, for 45 mins
1:1 counselling, twice weekly 40-60 mins

Daily
20 mins 1:1 social understanding support
1:1 or small group (doesn't say how many so I'll query this) 40-60 mins per subject daily, not mainstream sized classes.
1:1 daily for an hour with a mentor
15mins 1:1 twice daily check ins with a member of trained staff at start and end of day
1:1 daily support with sensory needs and access to sensory space for an hour with music on headphones.
1:1 2/3 times daily 10-15 mins sensory breaks
1:1 40 mins daily access to safe quiet space.

There's lots more, exemption from PE, physio and OT input, transport, laptop, reduced uniform expectations (baggy jumper, soft clothing), interest based learning in the 1:1 or small group mentioned for each subject.

It seems comprehensive on first reading and seems quantified and specific although there's lots of mentions of trained staff (it does say trained in SULP for one of them) or trusted adult, which is difficult as she doesn't trust adults..it does say when she feels ready to engage in education and when she is able to and that it could build up to this in time. Not sure if this could be used for EOTAS but it feels like it is geared towards a school but not a mainstream.

I feel like I could argue for specialist provision or EOTAS with this, maybe?

@1995SENNDMUM apologies, I read your previous post and for some strange reason thought you said the caseworker called.

They've confirmed it by email so I have the paper trial and will chase the finalized plan if it doesn't appear in post/via email in the next couple of days.

@1995SENNDMUM unless you have the finalised EHCP naming the school in your hand, follow up the conversation with an email so you have a paper trail.

Scrap that caseworkers just emailed to say he's been given a place at the school we wanted, in a fair bit of shock to say the least.

Thank you for your help again. Still can't get through the caseworker but got through to someone on our LAs helpline who advised they ve had 2 consults back so far, one negative and wouldn't say who the positive one was but they don't have responses from 2 others which are now past the 15 days.

Been promised a call back that I d be shocked if it materializes and so will get onto SOS SENs application tonight.

@1995SENNDMUM that is the going rate at the moment. It is at the lower end. If you want to go via SOSSEN, you should get on their waiting list sooner rather than later because more will be joining with LAs missing the phase transfer deadline.

@Icantpeopleanymore you can send the Director of Children’s Services one of IPSEA’s model letters. You could either do that now or wait until after the panel.

Most ARPs are not a separate registered school, so for most, the school is named in section I and the ARP provision detailed in F. Are you sure the ARP will work? I suspect DD’s MH has deteriorated too far for the one I think it is to be successful. If you had been offered that when the mainstream placement first broke down, it may have worked. You would also need other provision on top of the 2 days.

Finally heard from the LA today, my original caseworker is now off on long term sick leave, been assigned a new one, so it's going to panel tomorrow. At least we now have someone to contact. She told me she would send me the ep report today but nothing yet...she said if I wanted anything changed as it wasn't accurate then to contact the EP directly but obviously if the panel is tomorrow then that's highly unlikely to happen..
Hate all this waiting! It's actually week 14 now since I put in the request but it's obviously been delayed by the caseworker being off sick. Guess there isn't anything I can do about that, but it has given me a little more time at least as it's half term and I can't manage phoning schools until next week now anyway.

I have though found a school that might work for DD, it's a mainstream all girls non selective but it has a ARP which is purely for EBSA, anxiety, ASC, etc. only two days a week in year 10 and 4 days in year 11. GCSEs, high academic ability students. Only 40 mins away. Has worked for some girls like my DD anecdotally but I'm not sure if I would name the school or the provision as they are connected but separate. Guess I'll have to wait until schools are back to phone them.

Hello again,
To check I m not having the wool pulled over my eyes, is £900 the going rate just for pre action letters?
I m on carers allowance but DHs income just puts us out of the legal aid bracket, so it's a lot of money to find. Thought of asking SOSSEN but can't find info on their waiting list.

@Wednesdayy123 all special educational provision reasonably required should be in F (although avoid C&P large chunks of the waffly elements of the report because SENDIST doesn’t like large chunks C&P). Provision is taken from the evidence, so you should propose amendments based on the evidence. Don’t propose less.

However, SENDIST will consider all evidence. Sometimes this means provision ordered by SENDIST falls between both parties’ proposals. For example, evidence you submit might say 2x30mins weekly OT is required and the LA’s evidence might say 4 hours a year and SENDIST might order somewhere in the middle, say 30 mins a week. I am not saying that will definitely happen because it doesn’t happen all the time, just explaining what sometimes happens.

I have just received DS's OT report, therapist has said he will need sessions twice a week lasting 30mins (detailed and specified) and 1:1 supervision at all times in his educational environment as he chews on non-food items. I am awaiting SALT report she has already told me she will be saying he needs direct therapy weekly. I have a meeting next week with LA to make changes to the WD, it will be agreed there and then, hearing is very close. Meeting is penned in for 2hrs. My question is should all the provision from these reports be included, and nothing less?

Exactly, @NonplasticBertrand. It doesn’t need to be newly ‘instituted’.

The CEO also fails to mention the best endeavours duty some schools have under the Children and Families Act. Perhaps he is unaware of the duty because all bar one of the schools in the Nexus MAT is a special school, so it doesn’t apply to most of his schools? He should focus on getting his own house in order before imploring the government to make wholesale changes to the wider system. For example, he could focus on the issues at the Barnsley site of their Kenwood School over the last few months. A parent told me it is not a happy camp.

@handmademitlove I would push the LA and the report writers to improve their reports. However, I wouldn’t do this at the expense of delaying finalising. Even if the reports are improved, you may well have to appeal to get a good EHCP and if you need to appeal, you want to do that sooner rather than later.

I have a meeting next week to discuss the draft EHCP. I have already sent comments ahead of the meeting. So far I have been told that as the draft is cut and pasted from reports, it is my responsibility to get reports changed if I am not happy.

I would argue that as they commissioned the report, surely they are responsible for ensuring they are detailed, specified and quantified as required in the code of practice?

I am assuming they are just abdicating responsibility as they do with everything else.

I do not want to start arguments I won't win and am mindful that I need to pick my battles to get an EHCP that works in the long term.

Do I accept that they don't care and the finalised report will be less than workable and get ready to appeal. Or do I try to get a workable document, which may delay finalising? already late but don't want them to say it is my fault for arguing! It goes against the grain to let people get away with poor service...

DD is yr11 and realistically this is unlikely to be in place properly before her exams. So looking to get it right for sixth form.

*So not do.

Do many talking heads so keen to dilute the rights of disabled children. Depressing.

I've only skimmed that article and I am shocked at the ignorance of a CEO of a MAT on the Equality Act. And the lack of rigour at the TES to humour his ill-informed ramblings.

He fails to understand that parents and children can ask for reasonable adjustments now. The EHRC has excellent technical guidance for schools on their obligations under EA2010 so there is no excuse for anyone running a MAT not to understand the law as it applies to their institutions now.

Also very surprising that he cannot identify organic reasons for a rise in EHCPs at a time when the detection and understanding of neurodevelopmental conditions has significantly improved. On enforcement bodies, he appears ignorant of the role of the First Tier Tribunal and the principle of independent determination of what constitutes a reasonable adjustment in the event of a dispute. It is disturbing that he considers that local authorities would be a suitable body given the very obvious conflict of interest.

The main difference between workplaces and schools is that employers are held to account and required to pay out when found guilty of disability discrimination. If we were looking to the Equality Act for inspiration, the obvious step would be to extend financial penalties to schools where they trample on disabled children's rights. That might finally focus the author and his ilk on what the law already requires their organisations to do.

@Phineyj I have been able to read the whole article here.

I can’t speak for the CEO of Nexus (although the article including “without health playing a more active role (especially on funding)” signifies it is possibly a contributing factor to his thinking) but one of the reasons some in education think health have been allowed to abdicate their responsibilities is because health care provision that trains or educates is deemed special educational provision. Thus belongs in F and is ultimately the LA’s responsibility. This can include things like OT, SALT, physio, CBT, DBT, EMDR, art therapy, hydrotherapy...

Scrapping that would not benefit children and young people at all. Health care provision is significantly harder to enforce than SEP in F. In the majority of cases, rather than health take over responsibility for the provision, children and YP would merely not receive a large proportion of the provision. Health isn’t going to pick up the reins.

Other examples where health is cutting costs at the moment include adult CHC/children’s continuing care funding and the potential changes to RTC. A lot of areas are re-looking at funding for the former and either removing health funded support or reducing at the level of support and delegated tasks. If the RTC changes go ahead, that is going to have a detrimental effect on a huge number of people.

Don’t misunderstand me, there is much wrong with the system as it is. Removing rights and avenues to challenge unlawful behaviour is not the answer. It is in the same camp as the government’s suggestion of removing the ability to appeal to SENDIST.